God-speak

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God-speak

Post by TheNextPrez2012 on Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:36 pm

I often hear religious people try to explain the reason why God will not divulge why the world has so many problems.
These religious people say that the world's problems are so complicated that God can't explain them to our puny minds...but if God created us, why wouldn't he be able to talk to us in a way we would be able to humanly understand?
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Re: God-speak

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:02 pm

Congratulations, you have just identified yet another cataclysmic flaw in the God hypothesis. If this god can do anything then that should not be beyond its capability.
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Re: God-speak

Post by TexasBlue on Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:50 pm

No comment. Very Happy


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“I’m not in favor of fairness. I’m in favor of freedom, and freedom is not fairness. Fairness means somebody has to decide what’s fair.” - Milton Friedman
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Re: God-speak

Post by i_luv_miley on Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:11 pm

Sounds like a theodicy issue... Why do bad things happen to good people? And vice-versa???

Either God let's things happen or He's not all-powerful... Take your pick? :silent:
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Re: God-speak

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:18 pm

I see this not as a problem with God, but with traditional Christianity's distorted view of the Fall.

I've had this debate before with Christians on SP, but to answer your questions in a nutshell- TNP2012, yes, God does talk to us in ways we are capable of understanding, and Miley, to choose one or the other, God lets things happen.

To put my position simply: the Fall of Man was necessary. This is a basic principle so completely twisted by most in the Western world today. This mortal sphere was designed to be difficult, to have hardships, all for our individual growth. The Fall wasn't a tragedy spawned by two people eating fruit off a tree; it was essential to our eternal progression.

Now, to be more clear, I don't believe in a God who is completely hands-off; I absolutely acknowledge He plays a role in our lives and will speak to us as we allow Him. But the fact that there is suffering and "so many problems" in the world doesn't testify against God. It simply means that we are living in a state (a temporary one, I might add) that will inevitably consist of pain, loss, anger, death, etc. However, intertwined with the power of the Atonement of Christ to prevent these things from being too much for us to burden or eternal in duration, it is through these negative experiences that we grow, how we become more like God- the ultimate purpose of our existence.

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Re: God-speak

Post by TexasBlue on Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:35 pm

People question things as to why certain people have to suffer illnesses and the like while others do not. I don't question it. I just accept it as it is.

My mother had a stroke last Wednesday and is pretty incapacitated as of this time. Some may say that God allowed this to happen or that he doesn't care. I don't see it either way nor do i try to make sense of it.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: God-speak

Post by i_luv_miley on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:00 pm

I think I agree with what Tex said. Stuff just happens. We can ask why? And we can feel bad or even sorry for ourselves. IMO, that's just human nature. But there are things that just happen - and it makes no sense (IMO) to question it.

As for my own religious "views" (for context purposes), I've only begun actually thinking about it. I wasn't brought up in a religious household nor was I exposed to it - and I was okay with that. I didn't deny "God" but I didn't accept the idea either. Having said that though, over the past few years I have begun wondering (on a personal level) about "God" (and by that I mean, a higher power). And through my trying to learn about the different religions (specifically the big five), I've become more open to the idea that "He" may be out there. I would like to think there is something more than just what we perceive. But so far I have a hard time accepting that there is.
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Re: God-speak

Post by dblboggie on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:58 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:I think I agree with what Tex said. Stuff just happens. We can ask why? And we can feel bad or even sorry for ourselves. IMO, that's just human nature. But there are things that just happen - and it makes no sense (IMO) to question it.

As for my own religious "views" (for context purposes), I've only begun actually thinking about it. I wasn't brought up in a religious household nor was I exposed to it - and I was okay with that. I didn't deny "God" but I didn't accept the idea either. Having said that though, over the past few years I have begun wondering (on a personal level) about "God" (and by that I mean, a higher power). And through my trying to learn about the different religions (specifically the big five), I've become more open to the idea that "He" may be out there. I would like to think there is something more than just what we perceive. But so far I have a hard time accepting that there is.

Thumbs Up Quite true ILM! The world has never been "fair" no matter how hard mankind has tried to make it so. Things happen, as you say, and the best approach is to accept that they do, and to just meet with these events the best that one can without seeking to avoid that responsibility or lay it at anothers feet.

By the way, good luck on your spiritual quest. Whatever path you choose I'm sure it will be the right one for you.
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Re: God-speak

Post by i_luv_miley on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:12 pm

dblboggie wrote: Thumbs Up Quite true ILM! The world has never been "fair" no matter how hard mankind has tried to make it so. Things happen, as you say, and the best approach is to accept that they do, and to just meet with these events the best that one can without seeking to avoid that responsibility or lay it at anothers feet.

By the way, good luck on your spiritual quest. Whatever path you choose I'm sure it will be the right one for you.
Yup. As I said, when it comes to religion, I really don't know much and I just want to know more about them (i.e. the big five) and about how they work, how they got started, etc. Plus, with Christianity specifically, I've always been curious about the differences within the religion (i.e. Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Baptist and so on). I mean, I know the "basics" but I want to know the nuances. Coming from my background (what I said above), I think that would be fascinating to learn. Whistle
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Re: God-speak

Post by dblboggie on Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:30 am

i_luv_miley wrote:
dblboggie wrote: Thumbs Up Quite true ILM! The world has never been "fair" no matter how hard mankind has tried to make it so. Things happen, as you say, and the best approach is to accept that they do, and to just meet with these events the best that one can without seeking to avoid that responsibility or lay it at anothers feet.

By the way, good luck on your spiritual quest. Whatever path you choose I'm sure it will be the right one for you.
Yup. As I said, when it comes to religion, I really don't know much and I just want to know more about them (i.e. the big five) and about how they work, how they got started, etc. Plus, with Christianity specifically, I've always been curious about the differences within the religion (i.e. Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Baptist and so on). I mean, I know the "basics" but I want to know the nuances. Coming from my background (what I said above), I think that would be fascinating to learn. Whistle

Ah... a very interesting quest. Might I suggest that you look first at the very first recorded monotheistic religion and how it gave birth to Christianity? You may not know this, but the Jesus of the Christians was actually born as a Jew, lived all his live as a Jew, and died a Jew. All of his disciples were in fact Jewish. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah predicted by the Torah of the Jews. The Jewish priests did not believe this as Jesus had not fulfilled the prophecy of the Messiah as outlined in the Torah in their view (which is nothing more than the first 5 books of the Old Testament, also called The Pentateuch). In fact, Christianity, as embodied by the Catholic Church, was the very first schism of the monotheistic religion of Judaism (which was already thousands of years old at this point in history). After the Catholic Church was eventually endorsed and adopted by the Roman Empire under Constantine it grew to encompass all of what is now Europe and even Eastern Europe. It was not until well into the Renaissance that the Protestant Reformation movement began, lead by Martin Luther (of Lutheranism fame). This represented the first schism of the Christian Church (Catholicism). From there it only grew ever more fragmented. You have much history to study to get at the objective you have set for yourself. I wish you all the best in that quest.
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