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Why no one invades Switzerland

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Post by BubbleBliss Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:39 pm

Yet most of the market in the US is supplied by guns legally purchased.
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Post by TexasBlue Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:Yet most of the market in the US is supplied by guns legally purchased.

Read; stolen.
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Post by guido Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:51 pm

^^^ What he said.


Although this is a "black market" situation, the accusation that global black market weapons sales is being made up of US weapons is unfounded, and dead wrong.
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Post by TexasBlue Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:02 pm

That and when Hillary said 90% of the weapons the Mexican drug cartels are/were using are from the US. She got raked over the coals for that one. She was proven so wrong that it was funny.

15% to 18% was the figures if i remember right.
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Post by BubbleBliss Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:49 pm

guido wrote:^^^ What he said.


Although this is a "black market" situation, the accusation that global black market weapons sales is being made up of US weapons is unfounded, and dead wrong.

Show me where I said that.


And yes, they are stolen. They are also illegally sold for a profit. Does that make it acceptable that the legal gun market is fueling the illegal gun market?
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Post by guido Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:51 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:
Show me where I said that.

Did I say YOU said that per se? Show ME where I "accused" you please...


BubbleBliss wrote:And yes, they are stolen. They are also illegally sold for a profit. Does that make it acceptable that the legal gun market is fueling the illegal gun market?

Globally, are you aware of where the bulk of stolen weapons that are sold on the black market, come from?
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Post by BubbleBliss Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:06 pm

guido wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:
Show me where I said that.

Did I say YOU said that per se? Show ME where I "accused" you please...

If nobody said it, why are you bringing it up?


guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:And yes, they are stolen. They are also illegally sold for a profit. Does that make it acceptable that the legal gun market is fueling the illegal gun market?

Globally, are you aware of where the bulk of stolen weapons that are sold on the black market, come from?

We're talking about the American black market, not the global black market.

But since we're on the subject, weapons provided to insurgent groups by the CIA during the cold war are a major source of illegal weapons, as is the domestic gun market in the US and territory that used to belong to the USSR.
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Post by guido Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:23 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:
If nobody said it, why are you bringing it up?

It's called a discussion. Several times in the course of which, issues, and topics that aren't necessarily "on topic" WILL rear their ugly head.




BubbleBliss wrote:We're talking about the American black market, not the global black market.

Did it take a college degree to deduce that in a country the size of America, with many arms Manufacturers, and sales outlets, that the arms that fall into the hands of criminals HERE, would COME from HERE?!

BubbleBliss wrote:But since we're on the subject, weapons provided to insurgent groups by the CIA during the cold war are a major source of illegal weapons, as is the domestic gun market in the US and territory that used to belong to the USSR.

L O L!
Weapons supplied to ANY group through the CIA were SOLD to these groups, Number one.

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/22/18510326.php
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Post by guido Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:33 pm

guido wrote:
Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/22/18510326.php

Here's a good link too:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/11/90752.shtml
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Post by BubbleBliss Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:29 am

guido wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:
If nobody said it, why are you bringing it up?

It's called a discussion. Several times in the course of which, issues, and topics that aren't necessarily "on topic" WILL rear their ugly head.

That's not a discussion, if it was a discussion you'd address the original point, in this case the domestic black market, and not just throw in the GLobal black market without addressing the original subject at at hand. That's deflection, not a discussion.

guido wrote:


BubbleBliss wrote:We're talking about the American black market, not the global black market.

Did it take a college degree to deduce that in a country the size of America, with many arms Manufacturers, and sales outlets, that the arms that fall into the hands of criminals HERE, would COME from HERE?!

I don't know, did you?

guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:But since we're on the subject, weapons provided to insurgent groups by the CIA during the cold war are a major source of illegal weapons, as is the domestic gun market in the US and territory that used to belong to the USSR.

L O L!
Weapons supplied to ANY group through the CIA were SOLD to these groups, Number one.

So the Mujahideen paid for the weapons they used against the Soviets? As did the corrupt and oppressive Latin American dictatorships that fought against communists in their own country?

guido wrote:

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/22/18510326.php

That article talks about the drug war in Mexico.

And the second article you posted says nothing about China being the number one source for illicit weapons.
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Post by guido Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:23 am

BubbleBliss wrote:.
That's not a discussion, if it was a discussion you'd address the original point, in this case the domestic black market, and not just throw in the GLobal black market without addressing the original subject at at hand. That's deflection, not a discussion..

It seems several times throughout the course of this discourse, that issue has been addressed by all sides really.


BubbleBliss wrote:

I don't know, did you?
How could I not!? It is basically implied, especially after beefed up customs restrictions post 9/11/01.


BubbleBliss wrote:

So the Mujahideen paid for the weapons they used against the Soviets? As did the corrupt and oppressive Latin American dictatorships that fought against communists in their own country?

As a matter of fact yes in terms of the Mujahideen, (and the seeds of the Taliban as a matter of fact):

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/23/charlie.wilson/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilson_%28Texas_politician%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Allegations_of_connection_to_United_States_CIA

http://www.rawa.org/cia-talib.htm

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=taliban

http://rupeenews.com/usa/the-taliban-was-a-construct-of-the-cia-and-was-armed-by-the-cia/

Not only were arms sold, and often times sold at a great discount, the CIA also provided funds to them as well.

BubbleBliss wrote:
guido wrote:

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/22/18510326.php

BubbleBliss wrote:That article talks about the drug war in Mexico.

I'm aware of that, which is why I said:

guido wrote:

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

Because these weapons are used in skirmishes that come across our boarder with Texas primarily, and effect American citizens.


BubbleBliss wrote:And the second article you posted says nothing about China being the number one source for illicit weapons.

Which second article?
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Post by BubbleBliss Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:13 pm

guido wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:.
That's not a discussion, if it was a discussion you'd address the original point, in this case the domestic black market, and not just throw in the GLobal black market without addressing the original subject at at hand. That's deflection, not a discussion..

It seems several times throughout the course of this discourse, that issue has been addressed by all sides really.

No one has yet found any justification or facts that disprove the fact that a legal arms market fuels the illegal arms market.

guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:

I don't know, did you?
How could I not!? It is basically implied, especially after beefed up customs restrictions post 9/11/01.

Well then you accept the fact that an illegal market is fueled/has been fueled through an open legal market?

guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:

So the Mujahideen paid for the weapons they used against the Soviets? As did the corrupt and oppressive Latin American dictatorships that fought against communists in their own country?

As a matter of fact yes in terms of the Mujahideen, (and the seeds of the Taliban as a matter of fact):

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/23/charlie.wilson/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilson_%28Texas_politician%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Allegations_of_connection_to_United_States_CIA

http://www.rawa.org/cia-talib.htm

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=taliban

http://rupeenews.com/usa/the-taliban-was-a-construct-of-the-cia-and-was-armed-by-the-cia/

Not only were arms sold, and often times sold at a great discount, the CIA also provided funds to them as well.

The arms were pretty much given to the mujahideen, which is what your sources confirm and that was my original point anyways.

guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:
guido wrote:

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/22/18510326.php

BubbleBliss wrote:That article talks about the drug war in Mexico.

I'm aware of that, which is why I said:

guido wrote:

Number TWO, the primary source of illicit weapons, is CHINA (I'll just post a link to an area supplied by these weapons that effects MY country in a "round about way", and let YOU look any rebuff up)

Well if you're saying that I'm wrong about a lot of illicit weapons in the Global Black Arms trade, you've gotta provide figures that prove me wrong on a global level, not just a particular area.

guido wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:And the second article you posted says nothing about China being the number one source for illicit weapons.

Which second article?
[/quote]

This one:

"Here's a good link too:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/11/90752.shtml"
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Post by guido Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:26 pm

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