RegisterGraffiti - Crime or Art?
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Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:11 am
What are your thoughts on Grafitti writings around the cities? For example, I think Grafitti on bridges, old, abandoned buildings, etc. should not be a crime whereas on the other hand spraying on private property, trains, etc. should be a crime. Discuss.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by The_Amber_Spyglass Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:14 am
Sorry, I don't agree with it. I actually think it looks ugly, as far as art is concerned it is not my sort of thing.
Bridges and old buildings are often owned by somebody, even if it is the property of the local council. To clean it costs money to the taxpayer to clean off. If it is an old building that is protected, it will cost the heritage charity that cares for it valuable resources to clean off.
Many big cities now have areas where graffitti artists can use for their work and that is where it should stay.
Bridges and old buildings are often owned by somebody, even if it is the property of the local council. To clean it costs money to the taxpayer to clean off. If it is an old building that is protected, it will cost the heritage charity that cares for it valuable resources to clean off.
Many big cities now have areas where graffitti artists can use for their work and that is where it should stay.
The_Amber_Spyglass
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Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:06 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:
What are your thoughts on Grafitti writings around the cities? For example, I think Grafitti on bridges, old, abandoned buildings, etc. should not be a crime whereas on the other hand spraying on private property, trains, etc. should be a crime. Discuss.
I don't mind it if it's in the shitty part of town.
But.... graffiti on bridges, old, abandoned buildings is a crime because bridges belong to gov't entities. Abandoned buildings belong to an entity, presumably the city or state or even a bank. That's why it's a crime and should be a crime to spray paint on them.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:14 pm
But what's the damage when people spray paint bridges? Why does it matter if you see a grafitti while driving instead of a grey wall?
Sure, if it's an old building that's protected due to its history, then that should not be legal, but thinking about old factory buildings in cities such as Detroit that have been abandoned for a couple of decades and will be tore down sooner or later anyways, what's the damage? And most of the time, those are the places where Grafitti artists are allowed to paint, because the city knows that those old buildings will never be cleaned but will be torn down sooner or later.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:21 pm
Sorry BB.
See explanation here:
https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/t1787p15-graffiti-crime-or-art#13444
-kronos
See explanation here:
https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/t1787p15-graffiti-crime-or-art#13444
-kronos
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:10 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:But what's the damage when people spray paint bridges? Why does it matter if you see a grafitti while driving instead of a grey wall?
What's the damage? It's property of the state or federal gov't. That's the problem. If one can paint that with no recourse, then they can paint the Washington Monument with no recourse.
BubbleBliss wrote:Sure, if it's an old building that's protected due to its history, then that should not be legal, but thinking about old factory buildings in cities such as Detroit that have been abandoned for a couple of decades and will be tore down sooner or later anyways, what's the damage? And most of the time, those are the places where Grafitti artists are allowed to paint, because the city knows that those old buildings will never be cleaned but will be torn down sooner or later.
One can't pick and choose which laws they're going to follow. No property is without ownership, even if it's an abandoned building.
I understand where you're coming from, btw. I'm just stating the obvious. Your argument wouldn't hold up in court.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:28 pm
No, of course it wouldn't hold up in court. I'm not arguing from a judicial perspective here, I guess what I'm saying is that it wouldn't be much damage to make bridges or old buildings "Grafitti Zones". Of course there's always the problem of breaking and entering, invasion of private property when it comes to old buildings, but a bridge is a different story. I enjoy looking at Grafittis when driving, especially when riding the train here in Germany.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:33 pm
Fast Facts About Graffiti
Graffiti cleanup takes a big chunk out of municipal budgets. Phoenix, AZ spends more than $6 million annually on graffiti clean up. The city of San Jose spent about $2 million in 2006, Las Vegas, NV spends about $3 million annually, and Chicago, IL budgeted $6.5 million in 2006.
Graffiti is the most common type of property vandalism (35%) according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Immediate removal -- within 24-48 hours -- is one key to successful graffiti prevention.
There are several types of graffiti, including, gang, hate, and generic (non-threatening messages like "Bobby loves Suzy" or "Class of 2003").
About 80% of graffiti is "tagger" graffiti. Another 5% are "pieces," or large visuals. Nationally, gang graffiti makes up about 10% of graffiti.
Most studies show the majority of "taggers" are males between 12 and 21 years old. Approximately 15% of graffiti vandals are young females.
Arrest data from 17 major cities shows that 50% to 70% of all street-level graffiti is created by suburban adolescents, predominately males between the ages of 12 and 19.
Community paint-brush murals can be an effective prevention strategy. Although they are occasionally defaced by graffiti, they instill a sense of pride among youth and other community members who have helped create them.
There are four primary motivating factors for graffiti vandalism: fame, rebellion, self-expression, and power.
Getting the media to publish photos and videotape of graffiti is often the ultimate fame for graffiti vandals.
Graffiti cleanup takes a big chunk out of municipal budgets. Phoenix, AZ spends more than $6 million annually on graffiti clean up. The city of San Jose spent about $2 million in 2006, Las Vegas, NV spends about $3 million annually, and Chicago, IL budgeted $6.5 million in 2006.
Graffiti is the most common type of property vandalism (35%) according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Immediate removal -- within 24-48 hours -- is one key to successful graffiti prevention.
There are several types of graffiti, including, gang, hate, and generic (non-threatening messages like "Bobby loves Suzy" or "Class of 2003").
About 80% of graffiti is "tagger" graffiti. Another 5% are "pieces," or large visuals. Nationally, gang graffiti makes up about 10% of graffiti.
Most studies show the majority of "taggers" are males between 12 and 21 years old. Approximately 15% of graffiti vandals are young females.
Arrest data from 17 major cities shows that 50% to 70% of all street-level graffiti is created by suburban adolescents, predominately males between the ages of 12 and 19.
Community paint-brush murals can be an effective prevention strategy. Although they are occasionally defaced by graffiti, they instill a sense of pride among youth and other community members who have helped create them.
There are four primary motivating factors for graffiti vandalism: fame, rebellion, self-expression, and power.
Getting the media to publish photos and videotape of graffiti is often the ultimate fame for graffiti vandals.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:34 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:
No, of course it wouldn't hold up in court. I'm not arguing from a judicial perspective here, I guess what I'm saying is that it wouldn't be much damage to make bridges or old buildings "Grafitti Zones". Of course there's always the problem of breaking and entering, invasion of private property when it comes to old buildings, but a bridge is a different story. I enjoy looking at Grafittis when driving, especially when riding the train here in Germany.
I enjoy looking at "good" graffiti myself. But then again, it's against the law in most cases.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:44 pm
Well yes, but if you made it legal to spray paint bridges, the gov't wouldn't have to spend money on grafitti clean up. People will spray whether it's legal or not, so you might as well make it legal in some places in order to avoid clean up costs.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:50 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:
Well yes, but if you made it legal to spray paint bridges, the gov't wouldn't have to spend money on grafitti clean up. People will spray whether it's legal or not, so you might as well make it legal in some places in order to avoid clean up costs.
The problem with graffiti is that it attracts the gangs like flies. To allow it on certain bridges, etc, would be inviting problems that are already hard to deal with.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:25 pm
I don't think so. Gangs use Grafitti to mark their territory, a bridge in the middle of nowhere wouldn't be a target for gang grafitti, because it doesn't establish territory and a bridge in a gangs territory, would be tagged anyways, so might as well give other sprayers a chance to legally cover the gang grafittis with real grafittis.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:28 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:
I don't think so. Gangs use Grafitti to mark their territory, a bridge in the middle of nowhere wouldn't be a target for gang grafitti, because it doesn't establish territory and a bridge in a gangs territory, would be tagged anyways, so might as well give other sprayers a chance to legally cover the gang grafittis with real grafittis.
There are no bridges in the "middle of nowhere" that people would go to to paint graffiti. It's mostly a city thing. Nobody is going to travel to the country just to paint graffiti. And it does attracts gangs. Look it up. There's tons of stats on it.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:35 pm
People do here. Most bridges along the Autobahn or even along small streets have grafitti on them.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:39 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:
People do here. Most bridges along the Autobahn or even along small streets have grafitti on them.
That's there.
You'll see graffiti in the country here also but just an occasional graffiti job.... and it usually looks like shit.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by BubbleBliss Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:02 pm
TexasBlue wrote:BubbleBliss wrote:
People do here. Most bridges along the Autobahn or even along small streets have grafitti on them.
That's there.
You'll see graffiti in the country here also but just an occasional graffiti job.... and it usually looks like shit.
Yeah, because most of the time those pieces are done by teenagers who are too scared of getting caught so they don't spray in the cities.
BubbleBliss
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by kronos Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:04 pm
It's crime, unless the graffiti artist owns the property he is defacing or has the owner's permission.
It's also art. What's up with the false dichotomy?
I think graffiti is invariably butt-ugly. Even the kind shown in BB's pic. Still, I can see it takes skill to create that--ugly though it is.
But unless the artist owns the property, or the owner gives the artist the OK, graffiti is property destruction, and deserves prosecution, no matter how much skill goes into creating it.
It's also art. What's up with the false dichotomy?
I think graffiti is invariably butt-ugly. Even the kind shown in BB's pic. Still, I can see it takes skill to create that--ugly though it is.
But unless the artist owns the property, or the owner gives the artist the OK, graffiti is property destruction, and deserves prosecution, no matter how much skill goes into creating it.
kronos
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by kronos Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:06 pm
bubblebliss:
Please accept my apologies for accidentally deleting your post on p. 1 (the one with the picture).
I was trying to "quote" you, but I clicked "edit" instead (one of the pitfalls of being a mod) and made my post inside yours, replacing all your content with mine.
Very sorry. I hope it won't be too hard for you to find that picture again and re-do your post.
Please accept my apologies for accidentally deleting your post on p. 1 (the one with the picture).
I was trying to "quote" you, but I clicked "edit" instead (one of the pitfalls of being a mod) and made my post inside yours, replacing all your content with mine.
Very sorry. I hope it won't be too hard for you to find that picture again and re-do your post.
kronos
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:07 pm
BubbleBliss wrote:TexasBlue wrote:BubbleBliss wrote:
People do here. Most bridges along the Autobahn or even along small streets have grafitti on them.
That's there.
You'll see graffiti in the country here also but just an occasional graffiti job.... and it usually looks like shit.
Yeah, because most of the time those pieces are done by teenagers who are too scared of getting caught so they don't spray in the cities.
Seriously, if kids don't live in the city, they don't spray there. Nobody goes to the city to do graffiti. The Twin Cities is almost 3 hrs away from me.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:17 pm
kronos wrote:bubblebliss:
Please accept my apologies for accidentally deleting your post on p. 1 (the one with the picture).
I was trying to "quote" you, but I clicked "edit" instead (one of the pitfalls of being a mod) and made my post inside yours, replacing all your content with mine.
Very sorry. I hope it won't be too hard for you to find that picture again and re-do your post.
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by kronos Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:53 pm
TexasBlue wrote:
What's that emoticon supposed to be doing? Is he singing? Waving? Pounding the table with laughter? Is he doing that hand gesture thing Pope John Paul II used to do?
kronos
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by TexasBlue Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:55 pm
All of those things.kronos wrote:TexasBlue wrote:
What's that emoticon supposed to be doing? Is he singing? Waving? Pounding the table with laughter? Is he doing that hand gesture thing Pope John Paul II used to do?
TexasBlue
Re: Graffiti - Crime or Art?
by The_Amber_Spyglass Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:52 am
I did that to one of Tex's posts once but I found out how to reverse it (on FireFox): Click 'work offline' and click back page until you get to the original post. The biggest nightmare of this board is that if you accidentally click a link while typing a post, back paging means you have lost all of your text (even offline). In this case, this problem is your saviour because you can click back to the point where you clicked 'Edit' and the original text will be there again. Then unclick 'work offline' and then 'send'.kronos wrote:bubblebliss:
Please accept my apologies for accidentally deleting your post on p. 1 (the one with the picture).
I was trying to "quote" you, but I clicked "edit" instead (one of the pitfalls of being a mod) and made my post inside yours, replacing all your content with mine.
Very sorry. I hope it won't be too hard for you to find that picture again and re-do your post.
The_Amber_Spyglass-
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