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Post by TexasBlue on Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:37 am

The figures are there above us. They're fact.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:10 pm

And what do they show? Whether it's appropriate to TEMPORARILY tax people who can still afford to lead more than a comfortable lifestyle afterwards?
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Post by TexasBlue on Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:52 pm

It shows that your belief that they don't pay enough taxes is a myth. The facts are there.

If they don't pay enough, why didn't Democrats rescind that tax law last year? Bwah. They very easily could've done it. Not now but before Scott Brown came into the picture.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:54 pm

Show me where I said that they don't pay enough.
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Post by TexasBlue on Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:12 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:Show me where I said that they don't pay enough.

You do it by saying they don't pay their fair share. The IRS data shows that they do and then some.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:04 pm

You already said that, I'm asking you to show me where I said that they don't pay their fair share.
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Post by TexasBlue on Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:19 am

BubbleBliss wrote:You already said that, I'm asking you to show me where I said that they don't pay their fair share.

Yeah, it's always raising taxes on the wealthy, they can afford it. They can still go out and buy new TVs, BluRay players, etc. whereas the Middle & Lower Class can't....

The rich can still afford to live their lifestyle and they have the most money saved up anyways.

It's not an excuse, it's the truth. With great wealth comes responsibility, it's always been like that.

I'm only saying that they can afford to pay more taxes
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Post by BubbleBliss on Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:25 pm

Yeah, that was in response to my original post of a TEMPORARY tax to rescue the state from completely drowning.
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Post by TexasBlue on Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:29 pm

So otherwise, they should have their taxes lowered or remain as they are? The proof is in the pudding that with Bush's tax cuts, revenue increased markedly. Of course, that's not to be confused with the Bush/GOP spending spree (that Bama and Co are exasperating).
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Post by BubbleBliss on Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:22 pm

They're good where they are now.

That's my problem with Capitalism, it's all about growth. Everybody hails Regaen and Clinton as heros because of tremendous economic growth even though the average American received NOTHING of that growth except for a higher cost of living.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:12 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:They're good where they are now.

That's my problem with Capitalism, it's all about growth. Everybody hails Regaen and Clinton as heros because of tremendous economic growth even though the average American received NOTHING of that growth except for a higher cost of living.

Well, those Bush tax cuts are going to expire in December, including those on people making less than $250,000.... unless the critters in D.C. do some finagling.

If they let them expire on the rich and this economy doesn't take hold, the deficit will rise. Then the Dems are going to get hammered on that, too.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:38 pm

How will the deficit rise if people's tax cuts expire?

I heavily support the fact that donations and all such 'good deeds' get you major tax cuts. I think that should be expanded, not just giving tax cuts for 'free'.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:12 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:How will the deficit rise if people's tax cuts expire?

I heavily support the fact that donations and all such 'good deeds' get you major tax cuts. I think that should be expanded, not just giving tax cuts for 'free'.

If my taxes go up, i have less money. If one has less to spend or invest with, things remain tight. That's economics. We're seeing it right now as we speak and have been for the last year and a half. The people who make 300,000 aren't going out and buying boats. Maybe the movie stars are with their million dollar salaries.

The tax system in this country is a piece of sh!t. It should be a flat rate or no income tax at all replaced with a 'consumption' tax.

The deficits are in part due to massive spending. The other part is due to lack of tax receipts due to the failing economy. Less business output means less tax. Lack of people paying in due to being out of a job also affects that as you know.

The key to recovering from th deficit in general is spending cuts.... and that'll be hard to do with the assholes we have running the show. All of them. They love their perks and giveaways to their districts (special interests).
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:22 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:How will the deficit rise if people's tax cuts expire?

I heavily support the fact that donations and all such 'good deeds' get you major tax cuts. I think that should be expanded, not just giving tax cuts for 'free'.

If my taxes go up, i have less money. If one has less to spend or invest with, things remain tight. That's economics. We're seeing it right now as we speak and have been for the last year and a half. The people who make 300,000 aren't going out and buying boats. Maybe the movie stars are with their million dollar salaries.

Yeah, things remain tight in the economy, but the deficit won't necessarily grow unless, of course, more people become dependent on government money.

TexasBlue wrote:

The tax system in this country is a piece of sh!t. It should be a flat rate or no income tax at all replaced with a 'consumption' tax.

Then how would the government ever manage to pay for all their expenses that every American needs?

TexasBlue wrote:

The deficits are in part due to massive spending. The other part is due to lack of tax receipts due to the failing economy. Less business output means less tax. Lack of people paying in due to being out of a job also affects that as you know.

The key to recovering from th deficit in general is spending cuts.... and that'll be hard to do with the assholes we have running the show. All of them. They love their perks and giveaways to their districts (special interests).

Of course. Getting consumer confidence up is what I've been talking about all along, it's the thing that upholds an economy that is this heavily reliant on people spending most of their money instead of saving it.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:25 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:Yeah, things remain tight in the economy, but the deficit won't necessarily grow unless, of course, more people become dependent on government money.

ROFL Where you been? It's growing at an unbelievable pace! Brian Riedl did an analysis and said;

* President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama will add another $1 trillion.

* President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.

* President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.

* President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama will double it.

* President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.

* President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama will continue that trend.

* President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

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BubbleBliss wrote:Then how would the government ever manage to pay for all their expenses that every American needs?

What expenses? You make it sound like we have to feed at a trough like animals. The gov't is and has been venturing into realms it has no business being in. We've been over that before so i'm not going to go into it again. The gov't has to spend on defense, roads and security among other things of that nature. The problem is that once the gov't introduces new programs (spending), it's hard to do away with it.

BubbleBliss wrote:Of course. Getting consumer confidence up is what I've been talking about all along, it's the thing that upholds an economy that is this heavily reliant on people spending most of their money instead of saving it.


Yeah, that's right. But it trickles upwards in addition to all that. If you create a huge burden on the wealthy, you'll see stagnation. When Clinton raised taxes, the economy was humming. One could rightly say it was the right thing to do back then. This economy is the worst that i've ever seen. I've never been unemployed before in my life... ever! So, to raise taxes now would, and will, be the death-knell for the Democrats.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:50 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:Yeah, things remain tight in the economy, but the deficit won't necessarily grow unless, of course, more people become dependent on government money.

ROFL Where you been? It's growing at an unbelievable pace! Brian Riedl did an analysis and said;

* President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama will add another $1 trillion.

* President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.

* President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.

* President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama will double it.

* President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.

* President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama will continue that trend.

* President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

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Yeah, I know it's growing, I'm not retarded. We were just talking about rather the rise in taxes/expiration of tax cuts would contribute to the deficit even though the gov't would obviously get more tax money in than it does now....

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:Then how would the government ever manage to pay for all their expenses that every American needs?

What expenses? You make it sound like we have to feed at a trough like animals. The gov't is and has been venturing into realms it has no business being in. We've been over that before so i'm not going to go into it again. The gov't has to spend on defense, roads and security among other things of that nature. The problem is that once the gov't introduces new programs (spending), it's hard to do away with it.

What expenses???
Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, all branches of the military, Fed. Marshals, Departments of: State, Commerce, Homeland Security, Interior, transportation, etc., environmental protection agency, NASA, Treasury Dept., Dept. of Justice, Dept. of energy, National Science Foundation, housing and urban development, Office of Personal Management, Dept. of Defense, and the list goes on and on.

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:Of course. Getting consumer confidence up is what I've been talking about all along, it's the thing that upholds an economy that is this heavily reliant on people spending most of their money instead of saving it.


Yeah, that's right. But it trickles upwards in addition to all that. If you create a huge burden on the wealthy, you'll see stagnation. When Clinton raised taxes, the economy was humming. One could rightly say it was the right thing to do back then. This economy is the worst that i've ever seen. I've never been unemployed before in my life... ever! So, to raise taxes now would, and will, be the death-knell for the Democrats.

True.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:52 am

BubbleBliss wrote:Yeah, I know it's growing, I'm not retarded.
Unions And Red Ink - Page 2 31345-10
Unions And Red Ink - Page 2 Retard10

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL



BubbleBliss wrote:We were just talking about rather the rise in taxes/expiration of tax cuts would contribute to the deficit even though the gov't would obviously get more tax money in than it does now....

Not necessarily.

BubbleBliss wrote:What expenses???
Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, all branches of the military, Fed. Marshals, Departments of: State, Commerce, Homeland Security, Interior, transportation, etc., environmental protection agency, NASA, Treasury Dept., Dept. of Justice, Dept. of energy, National Science Foundation, housing and urban development, Office of Personal Management, Dept. of Defense, and the list goes on and on.

That's not a list of things Americans "need" but a list of things that are part of the function of this gov't that it should be doing to start with. Those are things that are functions that i totally agree with with the exception of a couple.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:16 pm

TexasBlue wrote:i=14&u=14929369]Unions And Red Ink - Page 2 31345-10[/url]
Unions And Red Ink - Page 2 Retard10

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

ROFL :suspect: ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:We were just talking about rather the rise in taxes/expiration of tax cuts would contribute to the deficit even though the gov't would obviously get more tax money in than it does now....

Not necessarily.

How wouldn't it?

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:What expenses???
Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, all branches of the military, Fed. Marshals, Departments of: State, Commerce, Homeland Security, Interior, transportation, etc., environmental protection agency, NASA, Treasury Dept., Dept. of Justice, Dept. of energy, National Science Foundation, housing and urban development, Office of Personal Management, Dept. of Defense, and the list goes on and on.

That's not a list of things Americans "need" but a list of things that are part of the function of this gov't that it should be doing to start with. Those are things that are functions that i totally agree with with the exception of a couple.


Well the fact is that that's not even all the gov't has to pay for. Add to that scholarships, funding, etc.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:35 pm

BubbleBliss wrote:How wouldn't it?

From the Bush tax cuts, the revenue collected by the gov't from the taxes on the rich rose greatly. I posted those stats somewhere on this forum. Raise 'em now and revenues will fall. The revenues collected by the gov't have fallen already in this recession (which has added to the debt.... to be fair). Raising them won't increase revenue.... not now.

BubbleBliss wrote:Well the fact is that that's not even all the gov't has to pay for. Add to that scholarships, funding, etc.

Scholarships aren't a gov't function. It's another form of welfare.... not actually welfare per se, but a selected entitlement.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:44 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
BubbleBliss wrote:How wouldn't it?

From the Bush tax cuts, the revenue collected by the gov't from the taxes on the rich rose greatly. I posted those stats somewhere on this forum. Raise 'em now and revenues will fall. The revenues collected by the gov't have fallen already in this recession (which has added to the debt.... to be fair). Raising them won't increase revenue.... not now.

Well, we'll see what happens.

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:Well the fact is that that's not even all the gov't has to pay for. Add to that scholarships, funding, etc.

Scholarships aren't a gov't function. It's another form of welfare.... not actually welfare per se, but a selected entitlement.

Yet it's necessary unless you want only the elite to go to College.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:54 pm

Colleges give scholarships. I'm fine with that. Using tax dollars to send people to college is bullshit. Many minorities are getting into college via their stellar play in sports. In fact, many people in general... not just minorities. People get scholarships based on doing stellar in high school. I didn't do worth a sh!t in high school. Looking back, it was my own choice (and a bad one at that). I didn't deserve the right to have a seat in a college class.
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:13 pm

You don't get into College without having the proper grades. But how do you think these kids receive scholar ships? It's all gov't funded except for the athletic scholarships & the ones given out for extremely good grades.
Things like FAFSA, etc. are all gov't funded and a lot of people, even Middle Class people, rely on this financial aid to get their College education.
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Post by TexasBlue on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:43 pm

I understand all this. It's not the gov't place to be in education or providing for it. It never was. It's another 'program' for the masses. It actually makes me wonder that if we did away with all that, that college premiums would go down. There's always a cause and effect.
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Post by guido on Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:24 pm

TexasBlue wrote:I understand all this. It's not the gov't place to be in education or providing for it. It never was.

Actually in the Preamble, as stated here:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The enlarged section provides a bit (as interpreted) for Federal Government's intersession in the area of Education, among other areas.


TexasBlue wrote:It's another 'program' for the masses. It actually makes me wonder that if we did away with all that, that college premiums would go down. There's always a cause and effect.

To tell you the truth, I would much rather see my tax dollars being put to use sending folks to college, as opposed to being wasted on many other areas that they are being crapped away on.

"Cause Knowledge is Power"
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Post by BubbleBliss on Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:06 pm

Colleges already have enough power over individuals and entire families, now you're saying the government should remove itself from it completely?
An no, it would not drive costs down. The Commonwealth of KY has been cutting public funding across the board for the past years and since then, tuition has increased even MORE than it has been increasing before then.
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