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Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:47 pm

Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Diaa Hadid
Associated Press
Nov. 11, 2010


QALQILIYA, West Bank -A mysterious blogger who set off an uproar in the Arab world by claiming he was God and hurling insults at the Prophet Muhammad is now behind bars — caught in a sting that used Facebook to track him down.

The case of the unlikely apostate, a shy barber from this backwater West Bank town, is highlighting the limits of tolerance in the Western-backed Palestinian Authority — and illustrating a new trend by authorities in the Arab world to mine social media for evidence.

Residents of Qalqiliya say they had no idea that Walid Husayin — the 26-year-old son of a Muslim scholar — was leading a double life.

Known as a quiet man who prayed with his family each Friday and spent his evenings working in his father's barbershop, Husayin was secretly posting anti-religion rants on the Internet during his free time.

Now, he faces a potential life prison sentence on heresy charges for "insulting the divine essence." Many in this conservative Muslim town say he should be killed for renouncing Islam, and even family members say he should remain behind bars for life.

"He should be burned to death," said Abdul-Latif Dahoud, a 35-year-old Qalqiliya resident. The execution should take place in public "to be an example to others," he added.

Over several years, Husayin is suspected of posting arguments in favor of atheism on English and Arabic blogs, where he described the God of Islam as having the attributes of a "primitive Bedouin." He called Islam a "blind faith that grows and takes over people's minds where there is irrationality and ignorance."

If that wasn't enough, he is also suspected of creating three Facebook groups in which he sarcastically declared himself God and ordered his followers, among other things, to smoke marijuana in verses that spoof the Muslim holy book, the Quran. At its peak, Husayin's Arabic-language blog had more than 70,000 visitors, overwhelmingly from Arab countries.

His Facebook groups elicited hundreds of angry comments, detailed death threats and the formation of more than a dozen Facebook groups against him, including once called "Fight the blasphemer who said 'I am God.'"

The outburst of anger reflects the feeling in the Muslim world that their faith is under mounting attack by the West. This sensitivity has periodically turned violent, such as the street protests that erupted in 2005 after cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad were published in Denmark or after Pope Benedict XVI suggested the Prophet Muhammad was evil the following year. The pope later retracted his comment.

Husayin is the first to be arrested in the West Bank for his religious views, said Tayseer Tamimi, the former chief Islamic judge in the area.

The Western-backed Palestinian Authority is among the more religiously liberal Arab governments in the region. It is dominated by secular elites and has frequently cracked down on hardline Muslims and activists connected to its conservative Islamic rival, Hamas.

Husayin's high public profile and prickly style, however, left authorities no choice but to take action.
Husayin used a fake name on his English and Arabic-language blogs and Facebook pages. After his mother discovered articles on atheism on his computer, she canceled his Internet connection in hopes that he would change his mind.

Instead, he began going to an Internet cafe — a move that turned out to be a costly mistake. The owner, Ahmed Abu-Asal, said the blogger aroused suspicion by spending up to seven hours a day in a corner booth. After several months, a cafe worker supplied captured snapshots of his Facebook pages to Palestinian intelligence officials.

Officials monitored him for several weeks and then arrested him on Oct. 31 as he sat in the cafe, said Abu-Asal.

Husayin's family has been devastated by the arrest. On a recent day, his father stood sadly in the family barber shop, cluttered with colorful towels and posters of men in outdated haircuts. He requested that a reporter not write about his son to avoid being publicly shamed.

Two cousins attributed the writings to depression, saying Husayin was desperate to find better work. Requesting anonymity because of the shame the incident, they said Husayin's mother wants him to remain in prison for life — both to restore the family's honor and to protect him from vigilantes.

The case is the second high-profile arrest connected in the West Bank connected to Facebook activity. In late September, a reporter for a news station sympathetic to Hamas was arrested and detained for more than a month after he was tagged in a Facebook image that insulted the Palestinian president.

Gaza's Hamas rulers also stalk Facebook pages of suspected dissenters, said Palestinian rights activist Mustafa Ibrahim. He said Internet cafe owners are forced to monitor customers' online activity, and alert intelligence officials if they see anything critical of the militant group or that violates Hamas' stern interpretation of Islam.

Both governments also create fake Facebook profiles to befriend and monitor known dissidents, activists said. In September, a young Gaza man was detained after publishing an article critical of Hamas on his Facebook feed.

Such "stalking" on Facebook and other social media sites has become increasingly common in the Arab world. In Lebanon, four people were arrested over the summer and accused of slandering President Michel Suleiman on Facebook. All have been released on bail.

In neighboring Syria, Facebook is blocked altogether. And in Egypt, a blogger was charged with atheism in 2007 after intelligence officials monitored his posts.

Husayin has not been charged but remains in detention, said Palestinian security spokesman Adnan Damiri.

He could face a life sentence if he's found guilty, depending on how harshly the judge thinks he attacked Islam and how widely his views were broadcast, said Islamic scholar Tamimi.

Even so, a small minority has questioned whether the government went too far.

Zainab Rashid, a liberal Palestinian commentator, wrote in an online opinion piece that Husayin has made an important point: "that criticizing religious texts for their (intellectual) weakness can only be combatted by ... oppression, prison and execution."
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:48 pm

All part of that "law and order", huh?


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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by dblboggie on Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:08 pm

That is Islam's idea of "law and order." It's barbaric and medieval.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:28 pm

ROFL


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“I’m not in favor of fairness. I’m in favor of freedom, and freedom is not fairness. Fairness means somebody has to decide what’s fair.” - Milton Friedman
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:29 am

It is amazing how easily Christians and Christian sympathisers forget their own bloody history and the problems their religion still causes today Christians fall over themselves to point out how barbaric this makes Islam while professing a monopoloy on peace, love and tolerance. Conceitedness it seems, is the supreme virtue of faith.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by dblboggie on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:05 pm

The_Amber_Spyglass wrote:It is amazing how easily Christians and Christian sympathisers forget their own bloody history and the problems their religion still causes today Christians fall over themselves to point out how barbaric this makes Islam while professing a monopoloy on peace, love and tolerance. Conceitedness it seems, is the supreme virtue of faith.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

First of all, no one here has professed that Christianity has a monopoly on anything. Anyone who has studied history is well aware of Christianity's bloody past - a past that is largely behind it, notwithstanding the problems you may still be having in Ireland. But there is no way one can compare Christianity and Islam in terms of violence, or in terms of outcomes of the orthodox practice of each. People like to point out the more gruesome passages of the Old Testament and draw comparisons between that and the Qur'an. But this misses a very important point. The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible, and while it remains a part of the Christian Bible, it is over-ridden by the New Testament. Christianity is ruled by that New Testament and there is NOTHING in the New Testament that even remotely approaches the extremely violent passages one can easily find in the Qur'an.

I know you are not a fan of any religions Matt, and I can understand that, but there is just no way one can say that an orthodox practice of Christianity (as laid out by their Messiah in the New Testament) would result in violence; whereas an orthodox practice of Islam results in extreme violence, actually commands extreme violence. This is just a fact. The New Testament talks about loving thine enemy as thyself and turning the other cheek and all that. The Qur'an does not, not even close. And where some moderation is written of early in that book, that moderation is rendered null and void by later passages which eschew any moderation at all, thanks to the doctrine of abrogation.

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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:50 am

notwithstanding the problems you may still be having in Ireland.
Lets not forget the slaughter of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia by Christians. Let's not forget Hitler's personal vendetta against Jews whom he blames for murdering Jesus. Let's not forget the KKK in your own country who are still actively anti Semite, anti Muslim and anti black. Let's not forget Northern Ireland and stop pretending the issue is political, or that the problem has gone away because Sinn Fein has instructed the IRA to do away with their weapons (there are numerous splinter groups carrying on fighting on both sides). And look how wiccans and other neopagans are discriminated against in your country today, only having recently gained the right to worship in the military. Let's not forget that AIDS is spreading in Africa because of the lies of the Catholic church about condoms.

Christianity is ruled by that New Testament and there is NOTHING in the New Testament that even remotely approaches the extremely violent passages one can easily find in the Qur'an.
Let us take a look at the New Testament:
Jesus condones the old laws Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus says that those that will not receive his message of tolerance, or do not hear it, will be condemned. Matthew 10:14-15 and Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:10-15

Jesus comes not to bring peace, but the sword. He will set families against each other. Matthew 10:34-6.

Jesus says the angels will gather up those that offend him and cast them into hell. Matthew 13:41-2

Jesus condemns those that do not execute their chldren under Old Testament law. Mark 7:9-10

Homosexuals are worthy of death. Romans 1:31-2
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:29 am

We have our KKK marginalized. They are a sliver in this society. Same goes for the abortion crazies. Point being, we've risen above this kind of kookiness. Many in Islam have not. They insist on living in the 12th century. We prefer to be modern.


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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:34 am

Regardless of whether the KKK or abortion clinic bombers have the support of 1 person or 1 million, they are still part of a modern lunatic fringe. To pretend that bigotry and violence are part of Christianity's past and not the present, is as false as it is pompous.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:36 am

Nobody is saying what you imply. What we (or I) are saying is how many in Islam conduct themselves is a widespread problem.


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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:37 am

They are still the minority, like the KKK.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:23 am

Of course they're a minority. But so is the KKK like you said. But the KKK isn't blowing up synagogues weekly or monthly either.

The point I'm trying to make is that we here in the West have tamed these domestic kooks and marginalized them.


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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:36 pm

Have you been to or lived in a Muslim country long enough to say that they haven't marginalised the kranks? Besides which, each "Muslim" country is different. There are laws in Turkey against Islamism, banning the burka and the like, that most European countries would be too scared to do. By reducing all Muslim countries to Islamist, west-hating, burka wearing, church-burning violent extremists you dehumanise them.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by TexasBlue on Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:48 pm

The_Amber_Spyglass wrote:Have you been to or lived in a Muslim country long enough to say that they haven't marginalised the kranks? Besides which, each "Muslim" country is different. There are laws in Turkey against Islamism, banning the burka and the like, that most European countries would be too scared to do. By reducing all Muslim countries to Islamist, west-hating, burka wearing, church-burning violent extremists you dehumanise them.

I'm well aware of Turkey, Egypt and Jordan. I speak of those who defame Islam in the name of religion by blowing people up. It happens in many places across the globe in the name of Islam. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst offenders of allowing the preaching of Wahabbism to continue. In fact, I'd be the first to say that most of the origins of the raping of the name of Islam comes from that country. But I won't (and haven't) label any country as for what I'm speaking of. I speak of the people who pervert Islam.

We have a "boot" on the necks of our extremists. I've never met a Christian who approved of the KKK or abortion bombers. I lived in the south for 25 years and ran across many people while there. I've met racists but those whom I met were never yapping about religion or hating in the name of it. They just hated.

Point being... we have laws in place for these very types of people. Hamas does not.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by dblboggie on Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:23 pm

The_Amber_Spyglass wrote:
notwithstanding the problems you may still be having in Ireland.
Lets not forget the slaughter of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia by Christians. Let's not forget Hitler's personal vendetta against Jews whom he blames for murdering Jesus. Let's not forget the KKK in your own country who are still actively anti Semite, anti Muslim and anti black. Let's not forget Northern Ireland and stop pretending the issue is political, or that the problem has gone away because Sinn Fein has instructed the IRA to do away with their weapons (there are numerous splinter groups carrying on fighting on both sides). And look how wiccans and other neopagans are discriminated against in your country today, only having recently gained the right to worship in the military. Let's not forget that AIDS is spreading in Africa because of the lies of the Catholic church about condoms.

First of all, your characterization of the troubles in the former Yugoslavia is misleading. Those wars were never about religion and were always centered around ethnic differences, as they have been for decades. Your theory of Hitler's personal vendetta is not a mainstream theory - rather it was combination of factors that lead to Hitler's animosity toward the Jews, with the primary factor being the widespread belief in the stereotypes of the as Jews as Communists, subversives and all kinds of other things. Your attempt to narrow all the many factors in play at that time (the Darwinian biology of the time, the theory that those who were biologically "unfit" should be done away with, the antisemitism that was rife in Europe for centuries along with all the old prejudices against Jews, the belief by many, including Hitler, that the Jews had been responsible for Germany's defeat in WWI, and on the list goes), to reduce all these to a simple "Hitler blamed the Jews for killing Jesus" is an attempt to hold Christianity responsible when nothing could be further from the historical truth. Let us not forget that it was not Jews alone that Hitler killed en-mass, he also killed Communists, liberals, homosexuals, gypsies and many other groups, none of which could be accused of "killing Jesus."

And I would love to hear about this alleged discrimination against Wiccans and neopagans. What, because the military only recently recognized them? Hell, the military still doesn't allow the open practice of homosexuality. The military is not a country club, and those in the military do not have all the rights and freedoms of civilians. There is a very good reason for that given their mission and the power they hold. Outside of the military, I cannot recall a single news story of any widespread discrimination of the tiny, tiny minority of people who profess to be Wiccans or neopagans.

As for Northern Ireland's problems, why should we forget the political component? It would seem that the political component is quite a large part of their conflict. Sure, there is a religious component, but are you saying the Pope is directing that violence continue, or Catholic leaders in Northern Ireland? Are Protestant church leaders urging the marginalization of Catholics?

As for the spread of AIDS in Africa and the Catholic Church's opposition to condom use, this is a doctrinal problem and is not the Church waging a bloody war against Africans (though the outcome is certainly not much different of course). And while ironic, the Church is the single largest provider of AIDS care for stricken Africans. But in the end, it is an unfortunate conflict between Church doctrine and the realities on the ground in Africa.

The_Amber_Spyglass wrote:
Christianity is ruled by that New Testament and there is NOTHING in the New Testament that even remotely approaches the extremely violent passages one can easily find in the Qur'an.
Let us take a look at the New Testament:
Jesus condones the old laws Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus says that those that will not receive his message of tolerance, or do not hear it, will be condemned. Matthew 10:14-15 and Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:10-15

Jesus comes not to bring peace, but the sword. He will set families against each other. Matthew 10:34-6.

Jesus says the angels will gather up those that offend him and cast them into hell. Matthew 13:41-2

Jesus condemns those that do not execute their chldren under Old Testament law. Mark 7:9-10

Homosexuals are worthy of death. Romans 1:31-2

ROFL Seriously Matt, I'm sure you have those passages on speed-dial for such debates, but if you think those are violent, then you have not read the Qur'an or Hadith. The Qur'an and Hadith makes these passages seem like saintly virtues in comparison.

Let us take a look at a few of the many, many passages from these "sacred" books:

From the Qur’an:

2:191-”Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

2:193-”Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.” Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

3:10-”Those who disbelieve, neither their riches nor their children shall save them from Allah. They shall become the fuel of the fire.”

3:151-”We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.”

4:76-”And those who believe fight in the way of Allah, but those who disbelieve fight in cause of evil. therefore, fight against those guided by Satan.”

4:89-”"Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

4:95-”Those of the believers who sit still…are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary.” Muslims who fight in jihad are better than those who don’t.

4:101-”"For the unbelievers are to you open enemies.”

5:51-”O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them in friendship is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.”

7:4-”How many a village have we laid in ruin! In the night our might fell upon it, or at midday when they were drowsy.”

8:12, 14- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

8:39-”Fight them (unbelievers) until persecution is no more and the religion of Allah reigns supreme.”

8:57- "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

8:59-60-”Do not suppose that the unbelievers have outstripped Allah. They cannot frustrate me. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost power, including steeds of war, so that you strike terror into the enemies of allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you do not know but Allah does.”

8:65-”O Prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty patient men among you, you shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred, they shall overcome a thousand unbelievers, for they are a nation who do not understand.”

8:74-”Those who believe and migrated from their homes and fought for the Way of Allah, and those who have sheltered them and helped them they are truly the believers.” The jihad warriors are the true believers.

9:1, 3, 5-”For four months you shall journey freely in the land. but know that you shall not render Allah incapable, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers…. And give glad tidings to the unbelievers of a painful punishment…. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Take them and confine them, then lie in ambush everywhere for them.”

9:14-”Fight them (unbelievers), Allah will punish them with your hands and degrade them. He will grant you victory over them and heal the chests of a believing nation.”

9:19-”Do you consider giving drink to the pilgrims and inhabiting the sacred mosque is the same as one who believes in Allah and the last day, and struggles in the Way of Allah? These are not held equal by Allah. Allah does not guide the harmdoers. Those who believe, and migrated, and struggle in the Way of Allah with their wealth and their persons are greater in rank with Allah.”

9:29-”Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the last day, who do not forbid what Allah and his messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth, being among those who have been given the book (Bible and the Torah), until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated (or feel themselves subdued).”

9:33-”It is he who has sent forth his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to uplift it above every religion, no matter how much the idolaters hate it.” Islam does not seek equality with other religions. Islam must be above all others.

9:38-”Believers, why is it that when it is said to you: ‘march in the way of Allah, ‘ you linger with heaviness in the land? Are you content with this life rather than the everlasting life? Yet the enjoyment of this life in (comparison to) the everlasting life is little. If you do not go forth, he will punish you with a painful punishment and replace you by another nation.” Those who refuse to wage jihad will face terrible punishment.

9:41-”Whether lightly or heavily, march on and fight for the way of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. This will be best for you, if you but knew.”

9:44-”Those who believe in Allah and the last day will not ask your permission so that they may struggle with their wealth and their selves.” True believers do not refuse to fight and risk their lives and property for Islam.

9:73-”O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

9:111-”Allah has purchased from the believers their selves and possessions, and for them is paradise. They fight in the way of Allah, slay, and are slain.” Muslim believers fight and so gain paradise.

9:123-”Believers, fight the unbelievers who are near you. Let them find firmness in you. Know that Allah is with those who are cautious.”

33:60-62- "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

47:4-”Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds…. As for those who are killed in the Way of Allah, he will not let their works to go astray.” More commands to violence and praise for violent martyrs.

47:8-”But the unbelievers shall be the destroyed losers. He will bring their deeds to nothing.”

47:20-”The believers ask: ‘has a chapter been sent down?‘ but when a clear chapter is sent down and fighting is mentioned in it, you see those in whose hearts is sickness looking towards you as one who swoons at death.”

48:28-29-”It is he who has sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, so that he exalts it above all other religions. Allah is the sufficient witness. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Those who are with him are harsh against the unbelievers but merciful to one another.”

59:2-3-”It was he who expelled the unbelievers among the people of the book from their homes into the first exile. You did not think that they would go out, and they thought their fortresses would protect them from Allah. But Allah came upon them from where they did not expect, casting terror into their hearts that their homes were destroyed by their own hands as well as by the hands of the believers. Therefore, take heed you that have eyes. Had it been that Allah had not decreed that they should be dispersed, he would have surely punished them in this world. and in the everlasting life the punishment of the fire awaits them….”

60:1-3-”O you who believe, you shall not befriend My enemies and your enemies, extending love and friendship to them, when they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you. They persecute the messenger, and you, just because you believe in Allah, your Lord. If you mobilize to struggle in My cause, seeking My blessings, how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal, and everything you declare. Those among you who do this have indeed strayed off the right path…. They want you to disbelieve. Your relatives and children can never help you. On the Day of Resurrection, He will judge among you. Allah is Seer of everything you do.” Muslims are not to take non-Muslims as friends. Leniency is not to be shown to unbelieving friends and family. The spread of Islam through “struggle” takes priority over these relationships.

98:6-”The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be for ever in the fire of gehenna (hell). They are the worst of all creatures.”

111:1-5-”In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful perish the hands of abilahab, and perish he! His wealth will not suffice him, neither what he has gained; he shall roast at a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with firewood shall have a rope of palmfiber around her neck!”


From the Hadith:

Bukhari 52:177- Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari 52:256- The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

Tabari 7:97- The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Tabari 9:69- "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Ibn Ishaq: 327- “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992- "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

Sahih Muslim: 3371- "We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter"


There are so many more, but I got tired of ferreting them out. Anyway, you get the point I hope. There is just no comparison between Islam and Christianity in terms of the barbarity, cruelty and violence in the Qur'an and Hadith (or Sunnah for some). These books condone the raping of women, the murder of innocent children, lying, cheating, betrayal and every sort of despicable behavior if it is done in the advance of Islam.
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Re: Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam

Post by The_Amber_Spyglass on Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:07 am

dblboggie wrote:First of all, your characterization of the troubles in the former Yugoslavia is misleading. Those wars were never about religion and were always centered around ethnic differences, as they have been for decades.
So the fact tht Milosevic's rabble were Christians and the fact that they specifically targeted Muslims is just a coincidence?!

dblboggie wrote:Your theory of Hitler's personal vendetta is not a mainstream theory
Yes it is mainstream theory. Hitler said: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." Mein Kampf volume 1, chapter 2.

dblboggie wrote:(the Darwinian biology of the time, the theory that those who were biologically "unfit" should be done away with, the antisemitism that was rife in Europe for centuries along with all the old prejudices against Jews, the belief by many, including Hitler, that the Jews had been responsible for Germany's defeat in WWI, and on the list goes), to reduce all these to a simple "Hitler blamed the Jews for killing Jesus" is an attempt to hold Christianity responsible when nothing could be further from the historical truth.
Then please explain the passage above. There are many, many more quotes that shows his Christian beliefs. In Mein Kampf there are many more mentions of "God" and "Christ" in that book than any other issue. His championing of the unity of state and church, his banning of Darwinist books and this little nugget: “I am now, as before, a Catholic and will always remain so.”

Now let is combine that one with the quote from Mein Kampf. Coincidental, my arse.

dblboggie wrote:Let us not forget that it was not Jews alone that Hitler killed en-mass, he also killed Communists, liberals, homosexuals, gypsies and many other groups, none of which could be accused of "killing Jesus."
Of course not but the Jews were his main target. Your attempt to suggest that his Christian belief was coincidental when Hitler himself said "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." Mein Kampf volume 1, chapter 2 I find disturbing and bizarre. But then when somebody works from the presuppositing that Christianity is "peaceful" and "tolerant" at its core and works backwards from there, such issues are going to be dismissed one way or the other.

dblboggie wrote:And I would love to hear about this alleged discrimination against Wiccans and neopagans. What, because the military only recently recognized them? Hell, the military still doesn't allow the open practice of homosexuality. The military is not a country club, and those in the military do not have all the rights and freedoms of civilians. There is a very good reason for that given their mission and the power they hold. Outside of the military, I cannot recall a single news story of any widespread discrimination of the tiny, tiny minority of people who profess to be Wiccans or neopagans.
The First Amendment doesn't apply to neopagans? Show me where in your constitution that it says that some religions are more equal than others?

dblboggie wrote:As for Northern Ireland's problems, why should we forget the political component? It would seem that the political component is quite a large part of their conflict. Sure, there is a religious component, but are you saying the Pope is directing that violence continue, or Catholic leaders in Northern Ireland?
The political issue would have been settled a long time ago if it was not for religious differences. Are you saying it is a coincidence that the loyalists are Protestant and the Republicans are Catholic? I mean for goodness sake, The Orange Order are celebrating the defeat of Catholicism by William of Orange at The battle of the Boyne where James II had put together an alliance of Catholic forces.

dblboggie wrote:Are Protestant church leaders urging the marginalization of Catholics?
Ever heard the name Reverend Ian Paisley?

dblboggie wrote:As for the spread of AIDS in Africa and the Catholic Church's opposition to condom use, this is a doctrinal problem and is not the Church waging a bloody war against Africans (though the outcome is certainly not much different of course). And while ironic, the Church is the single largest provider of AIDS care for stricken Africans. But in the end, it is an unfortunate conflict between Church doctrine and the realities on the ground in Africa.
Still condemning millions to a needless death.

dblboggie wrote:ROFL Seriously Matt, I'm sure you have those passages on speed-dial for such debates, but if you think those are violent, then you have not read the Qur'an or Hadith.
I am well aware of the violence in the Koran. Where did I ever say otherwise?

dblboggie wrote:These books condone the raping of women, the murder of innocent children, lying, cheating, betrayal and every sort of despicable behavior if it is done in the advance of Islam.
So does most of the Old Testament. There are many more acts of violence in the NT.
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