Bad news for Buffett on millionaires and billionaires

Bad news for Buffett on millionaires and billionaires

Neal Boortz
August 22, 2011

Warren Buffett has done a great favor to the class warfare supporters in America. His column in the New York Times last week has become a go-to clutch for every prog who wants to claim that millionaires and billionaires need to pay more in taxes: See, Warren Buffett says that he should be paying more. It will become a lazy excuse for people who do not take the time to do the research for themselves. If they did, they would discover that for all his talk .. Warren Buffett’s plan to increase taxes on the rich wouldn’t even make a dent in the fiscal problems of our country. Not even a dent. This is because we do not have a revenue problem in this country. We have a spending problem.

Historically over time, we have collected revenues that correspond with about 18% of our GDP. This also happened to correspond with our spending levels. So the government was taking in about as much money as it spent. Now that is no longer the case. Albeit years of economic crisis (2008 for example), this 18% figure is pretty static. But Obama’s budget averages spending of 23% of GDP. See the problem?

Moving right along .. the point is that taxing the millionaires and billionaires isn’t going to close that gap between the 18% of GDP that our federal government takes in in revenues and the 23% of GDP that the
federal government is spending. But this is what Obama and the progs want you to believe – that all of our problems would be solved if we just taxed the snot out of these millionaires and billionaires. So David Logan of the Tax Foundation did the research. Here’s how it is summed up by CNSNews:

… even taxing the nation’s millionaires at 50 percent – even eliminating loopholes and deductions – would only reduce the deficit by 8 percent and the national debt by 1 percent …

Taxing millionaires at an effective tax rate of 50 percent would raise only $120 billion more, according to Tax Foundation calculations based on IRS data.

Taxing those who make $10 million or more at an even higher rate, as Buffett advised, would also do little to reduce the deficit and debt. Tax Foundation calculations indicate that taxing these individuals at an effective rate of 100 percent would only net the government $186 billion, reducing the deficit by 12 percent and the debt by an additional 2 percent.

In fact, the only way for the government to solve its fiscal issues with revenue would be to confiscate every single dollar from every single American making $200,000 or more per year, the study said.

This has nothing to do with growing our economy or paying down our debt. This is nothing but class warfare .. a vote-buying scheme using wealth envy as a means to rile up ignorant voters.

Neal Boortz wrote:This has nothing to do with growing our economy or paying down our debt. This is nothing but class warfare .. a vote-buying scheme using wealth envy as a means to rile up ignorant voters.

That's it in a nutshell. I know some get tired of hearing it, but the truth hurts sometimes.

TexasBlue wrote:Bad news for Buffett on millionaires and billionaires

Warren Buffett’s plan to increase taxes on the rich wouldn’t even make a dent in the fiscal problems of our country. Not even a dent.

I'm sure anybody that's involved in cancer research, alternate energy research and all the other research fields that affect everybody would gladly take those millions that don't even put a dent into the debt problem.

BubbleBliss wrote:

TexasBlue wrote:Bad news for Buffett on millionaires and billionaires

Warren Buffett’s plan to increase taxes on the rich wouldn’t even make a dent in the fiscal problems of our country. Not even a dent.

I'm sure anybody that's involved in cancer research, alternate energy research and all the other research fields that affect everybody would gladly take those millions that don't even put a dent into the debt problem.

Then Buffet can donate the money to them.

All joking aside, we're talking debt. That's our current problem.

Buffet's money doesn't compare to what a slight tax increase would bring in.

TexasBlue wrote:Bad news for Buffett on millionaires and billionaires

Warren Buffett’s plan to increase taxes on the rich wouldn’t even make a dent in the fiscal problems of our country. Not even a dent.

BubbleBliss wrote:I'm sure anybody that's involved in cancer research, alternate energy research and all the other research fields that affect everybody would gladly take those millions that don't even put a dent into the debt problem.

BubbleBliss wrote:
Buffet's money doesn't compare to what a slight tax increase would bring in.

Apparently, you seem to miss the point here. Any increase wouldn't make a dent in our debt troubles.

BubbleBliss wrote:
Buffet's money doesn't compare to what a slight tax increase would bring in.

TexasBlue wrote:Apparently, you seem to miss the point here. Any increase wouldn't make a dent in our debt troubles.

and that's the best reason he could come up with for not increasing tax's on Millionaires and Billionaires.. I think his arguments maybe intellectuality bankrupt, no ??

No, the intellectually bankrupt argument to make is to propose higher taxes just because they can pay them, despite the fact that the higher taxes will not address the fundamental problem our economy and our federal government faces.

We could tax ALL of the "millionaires and billionaires" at 100 PERCENT - and it STILL wouldn't make a dent in the problem.

We have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem.

On top of our spending problem is a tax system that encourages and enables crony capitalism, let's far too many of our citizens skate without paying a single dime in federal income taxes (nearly 50% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes) and taxes our businesses at a higher rate than anywhere in the industrialized world.

Add to that a regulatory system that costs businesses countless BILLIONS of dollars to keep in compliance every single year, and you have a perfect storm of government interference in free markets that could do NOTHING BUT hold business growth and productivity DOWN.

All this crap Buffet is talking is just that, crap! Taxing the rich more is NOT a solution to our nation's problems.

A complete and total overhaul of our tax, entitlement and regulatory systems IS the ONLY thing that will turn this around - not some bullshit tinkering around the extreme edges as Buffet proposes.

TexasBlue wrote:

BubbleBliss wrote:
Buffet's money doesn't compare to what a slight tax increase would bring in.

Apparently, you seem to miss the point here. Any increase wouldn't make a dent in our debt troubles.

Maybe so, but there are still plenty of places that would gladly take that money nonetheless and do useful things with it.

dblboggie wrote:No, the intellectually bankrupt argument to make is to propose higher taxes just because they can pay them, despite the fact that the higher taxes will not address the fundamental problem our economy and our federal government faces.

We could tax ALL of the "millionaires and billionaires" at 100 PERCENT - and it STILL wouldn't make a dent in the problem.

sounds like a good reason for NO ONE paying any tax at all... cos paying tax wouldn't make a dent in the problem..

but then you don't pay tax's based on the amount your tax's dent your government's debt.. but based on some mechanism calculated on your disposable income.. with people who's disposable income is below an amount not having to pay tax at all and increasing amounts based on your disposable income. .. BUT always seen to be fair and the amount "millionaires and billionaires" are asked to pay out of their disposable income ]even before their tax accountants start to do their well paid stuff] is seen by many if not by most as being unfair.

cable2 1 wrote:sounds like a good reason for NO ONE paying any tax at all... cos paying tax wouldn't make a dent in the problem..

No. We pay taxes for services the gov't is supposed to provide. We pay taxes to the fed, to Social Security, to Medicare on the federal level. Then we pay taxes to the state we live in. Only 13 have no state income tax. They levy taxes through higher sales taxes (Texas, Florida, South Dakota, etc). Then we pay taxes to our county that we live in and also to the city we live in.

You see, some of you Europeans don't have a grasp on our tax system and how much tax is paid by people here. No more than how I don't know about your tax system.

cable2 1 wrote:but then you don't pay tax's based on the amount your tax's dent your government's debt..

It's not supposed to work that way. The tax system is set in place by our congress. If they spend more than what they're expected to take in, that's not my problem. It's theirs and they need to fix it by cutting spending.

cable2 1 wrote:but based on some mechanism calculated on your disposable income.. with people who's disposable income is below an amount not having to pay tax at all and increasing amounts based on your disposable income. ..

There are several tax brackets here.

Tax Bracket	Single	Married Filing Jointly	Head of Household
10% Bracket	$0 – $8,500	$0 – $17,000	$0 – $12,150
15% Bracket	$8,500 – $34,500	$17,000 – $69,000	$12,150 – $46,250
25% Bracket	$34,500 – $83,600	$69,000 – $139,350	$46,250 – $119,400
28% Bracket	$83,600 – $174,400	$139,350 – $212,300	$119,400 – $193,350
33% Bracket	$174,400 – $379,150	$212,300 – $379,150	$193,350 – $379,150
35% Bracket	$379,150+	$379,150+	$379,150+

Single Filers


These tables are for single filers who are not surviving spouses or heads of household:

Taxable Income	Tax
$0 – $8,500	10% of taxable income
$8,500 – $34,500	$850 plus 15% of excess over $8,500
$34,500 – $83,600	$4,750 plus 25% of excess over $34,500
$83,600 – $174,400	$17,025 plus 28% of excess over $83,600
$174,400 – $379,150	$42,449 plus 33% of excess over $174,400
$379,150+	$110,016.50 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

These tables are for married filing jointly or surviving spouses:

Taxable Income	Tax
$0 – $17,000	10% of taxable income
$17,000 – $69,000	$1,700 plus 15% of excess over $17,000
$69,000 – $139,350	$9,500 plus 25% of excess over $69,000
$139,350 – $212,300	$27,087.50 plus 28% of excess over $139,350
$212,300 – $379,150	$47,513.50 plus 33% of excess over $212,300
$379,150+	$102,574 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

These tax tables are for those considered Heads of Household:

Taxable Income	Tax
$0 – $12,150	10% of taxable income
$12,150 – $46,250	$1,215 plus 15% of excess over $12,150
$46,250 – $119,400	$6,330 plus 25% of excess over $46,250
$119,400 – $193,350	$24,617.50 plus 28% of excess over $119,400
$193,350 – $379,150	$45,323.50 plus 33% of excess over $193,350
$379,150+	$106,637.50 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

These are tax tables for those filing as Married Filing Separately:

Taxable Income	Tax
$0 – $8,500	10% of taxable income
$8,500 – $34,500	$850 plus 15% of excess over $8,500
$34,500 – $69,675	$4,750 plus 25% of excess over $34,500
$69,675 – $106,150	$13,543.75 plus 28% of excess over $69,675
$106,150 – $189,575	$23,756.75 plus 33% of excess over $106,150
$189,575+	$51,287 plus 35% of excess over $189,575

cable2 1 wrote:BUT always seen to be fair and the amount "millionaires and billionaires" are asked to pay out of their disposable income ]even before their tax accountants start to do their well paid stuff] is seen by many if not by most as being unfair.

We've been over this so many times in here that I'm surprised you even say this. The wealthy pay most of the taxes in this country. The bottom 47% pay nothing due to massive deductions and credits.

cable2 1 wrote:BUT always seen to be fair and the amount "millionaires and billionaires" are asked to pay out of their disposable income ]even before their tax accountants start to do their well paid stuff] is seen by many if not by most as being unfair.

TexasBlue wrote:We've been over this so many times in here that I'm surprised you even say this. The wealthy pay most of the taxes in this country. The bottom 47% pay nothing due to massive deductions and credits.

Yep we have been down this way before.. and you still have got quite away to go before you convince me or others just how hard done by are the "millionaires and billionaires" of America... as we both know that NO "millionaire or billionaire" pays their full wack in tax.. there is a full industry based on "millionaires and billionaires" tax avoidance

TexasBlue wrote:The bottom 47% pay nothing due to massive deductions and credits.

I'm just curious about something, because you and Dbl mention this figure a lot.

Do you think the bottom 47% should pay more? i.e. would you do away with the deductions and credits and basically raise taxes on this 47%?

cable2+1 wrote:Yep we have been down this way before.. and you still have got quite away to go before you convince me or others just how hard done by are the "millionaires and billionaires" of America... as we both know that NO "millionaire or billionaire" pays their full wack in tax.. there is a full industry based on "millionaires and billionaires" tax avoidance

Full wack in taxes? Jesus, man. You know, I get so tired of having to post this time and time again.... the same stats, over and over...... only to be met down the road with the same old tired assumptions. In fact, I'm almost ready to make a post on this and making it a sticky. So, here's some facts from our tax revenue service, the IRS;



and here's 2008 which is last available IRS data;


Oh. And here's the data for 1999. We see how the bottom 50% paid more taxes back then compared to now?


How is it that the top 50% pay 97% of taxes and the bottom 50% pay a paltry 2.89%? How is that? Explain this!

kronos wrote:

TexasBlue wrote:The bottom 47% pay nothing due to massive deductions and credits.

I'm just curious about something, because you and Dbl mention this figure a lot.

Do you think the bottom 47% should pay more? i.e. would you do away with the deductions and credits and basically raise taxes on this 47%?

They should pay the rate that they're supposed to.... by doing away with some deductions and doing away with tax credits. Tax credits are not taxes. They're not credits. It's nothing but money given away.

Of course, I don't expect someone making $15,000 a year to pay taxes. But when a married couple with 2 kids and a house have an income of $108,000 and pay nothing due to deductions and credits, there's a huge problem.

Of course, these are just my opinions.