Those silly young people
4 posters
Those silly young people
Those silly young people
Nov 7th 2011, 19:37 by R.A. | WASHINGTON
WITH interest growing in Occupy Wall Street and the troubled, underemployed, indebted young, newspaper editors are hitting the streets, tracking down representative individuals and publishing their story. Only, these are the stories they're coming up with:
A few years ago, Joe Therrien, a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated by huge class sizes, sparse resources and a disorganized bureaucracy, he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry. Three years and $35,000 in student loans later, he emerged with degree in hand, and because puppeteers aren’t exactly in high demand…he’s working at his old school as a full-time “substitute”…[earning less than he did before].…Like a lot of the young protesters who have flocked to Occupy Wall Street, Joe had thought that hard work and education would bring, if not class mobility, at least a measure of security…But the past decade of stagnant wages for the 99 percent and million-dollar bonuses for the 1 percent has awakened the kids of the middle class to a national nightmare: the dream that coaxed their parents to meet the demands of work, school, mortgage payments and tuition bills is shattered.
As Alex Tabarrok says, this seems to reflect less poorly on the unfortunate puppeteer than on the editor who thought this sounded like a true hard case. Mr Tabarrok's fellow blogger, Tyler Cowen, seems anxious to read great portent into this genre of stories, however. He links to a similar piece and writes:
She has heavy student debt and does not know how to pay it back; in the meantime she has become an activist against Bank of America’s proposed debit card fee. She doesn’t have a full-time steady job and her story is here.She majored in art and architectural history and spent her summers interning at art museums...I should stress that I am sympathetic with some of her choices (not the tub of beer), and you can read this as reflecting some strengths of American higher education. Still, not all liberal arts students have her organizational and media talents, and this kind of story goes a long way toward explaining the current job market malaise for the young. Even she is having a hard time finding remunerative work and getting on a career track. Furthermore, she doesn’t seem to be striving for that.
Personally, I think this kind of blog post—Mr Cowen's—goes a long way toward explaining the current job market malaise for the young. It is remarkable to me how readily old, successful professionals dismiss the labour-market difficulties of young adults as the product of their poorly-chosen majors and general lack of ambition, and on what flimsy evidence they're prepared to base these views. There are now 3.3m unemployed workers between the ages of 25 and 34. That's more than twice the level in 2007. There are over 2m unemployed college graduates of all ages; nearly three times the level of 2007. There are many millions more that are underemployed—unwillingly working less than full-time or unwillingly working in a job outside their field which pays less than jobs in their field. As far as I know, the distribution of college majors didn't swing dramatically from quantitative fields to art history over the past half decade.
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal provides us with a handy interactive graphic examining unemployment rates by major according to the 2010 Census. Coming in toward the top of the list and ahead of "art history and criticism" are the sorts of degrees you'd expect, like those falling into "miscellaneous fine arts", but also "computer administration management and security", "engineering and industrial management", "international business", "electrical and mechanic repairs and technologies", "materials engineering and materials science", "genetics", "neuroscience", "biochemical sciences", and "computer engineering". I bet those graduates are all trying to break into puppetry!
I am sure that many young graduates feel entitled to better work than they've managed to find, and some of them probably chose poorly when it came time to matriculate. But I see little evidence that high unemployment is due to the shiftlessness of youths and far more evidence that high youth unemployment is due to systematic weakness in labour markets associated with a shortfall in aggregate demand.
Nov 7th 2011, 19:37 by R.A. | WASHINGTON
WITH interest growing in Occupy Wall Street and the troubled, underemployed, indebted young, newspaper editors are hitting the streets, tracking down representative individuals and publishing their story. Only, these are the stories they're coming up with:
A few years ago, Joe Therrien, a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated by huge class sizes, sparse resources and a disorganized bureaucracy, he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry. Three years and $35,000 in student loans later, he emerged with degree in hand, and because puppeteers aren’t exactly in high demand…he’s working at his old school as a full-time “substitute”…[earning less than he did before].…Like a lot of the young protesters who have flocked to Occupy Wall Street, Joe had thought that hard work and education would bring, if not class mobility, at least a measure of security…But the past decade of stagnant wages for the 99 percent and million-dollar bonuses for the 1 percent has awakened the kids of the middle class to a national nightmare: the dream that coaxed their parents to meet the demands of work, school, mortgage payments and tuition bills is shattered.
As Alex Tabarrok says, this seems to reflect less poorly on the unfortunate puppeteer than on the editor who thought this sounded like a true hard case. Mr Tabarrok's fellow blogger, Tyler Cowen, seems anxious to read great portent into this genre of stories, however. He links to a similar piece and writes:
She has heavy student debt and does not know how to pay it back; in the meantime she has become an activist against Bank of America’s proposed debit card fee. She doesn’t have a full-time steady job and her story is here.She majored in art and architectural history and spent her summers interning at art museums...I should stress that I am sympathetic with some of her choices (not the tub of beer), and you can read this as reflecting some strengths of American higher education. Still, not all liberal arts students have her organizational and media talents, and this kind of story goes a long way toward explaining the current job market malaise for the young. Even she is having a hard time finding remunerative work and getting on a career track. Furthermore, she doesn’t seem to be striving for that.
Personally, I think this kind of blog post—Mr Cowen's—goes a long way toward explaining the current job market malaise for the young. It is remarkable to me how readily old, successful professionals dismiss the labour-market difficulties of young adults as the product of their poorly-chosen majors and general lack of ambition, and on what flimsy evidence they're prepared to base these views. There are now 3.3m unemployed workers between the ages of 25 and 34. That's more than twice the level in 2007. There are over 2m unemployed college graduates of all ages; nearly three times the level of 2007. There are many millions more that are underemployed—unwillingly working less than full-time or unwillingly working in a job outside their field which pays less than jobs in their field. As far as I know, the distribution of college majors didn't swing dramatically from quantitative fields to art history over the past half decade.
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal provides us with a handy interactive graphic examining unemployment rates by major according to the 2010 Census. Coming in toward the top of the list and ahead of "art history and criticism" are the sorts of degrees you'd expect, like those falling into "miscellaneous fine arts", but also "computer administration management and security", "engineering and industrial management", "international business", "electrical and mechanic repairs and technologies", "materials engineering and materials science", "genetics", "neuroscience", "biochemical sciences", and "computer engineering". I bet those graduates are all trying to break into puppetry!
I am sure that many young graduates feel entitled to better work than they've managed to find, and some of them probably chose poorly when it came time to matriculate. But I see little evidence that high unemployment is due to the shiftlessness of youths and far more evidence that high youth unemployment is due to systematic weakness in labour markets associated with a shortfall in aggregate demand.
BubbleBliss
Re: Those silly young people
TexasBlue wrote:Yeah, those silly young people.........
Hey, Van Jones is proud of them:
Mark85la- Birthday : 1985-12-02
Age : 38
Re: Those silly young people
Is that the only response you can come up with? Nothing about student debt or stagnating wages?
BubbleBliss
Re: Those silly young people
BubbleBliss wrote:
Is that the only response you can come up with? Nothing about student debt or stagnating wages?
Students chose to go to college and chose to take out loans. The loan didn't just increase after they graduated.
Stagnant wages isn't the problem of gov't. If it becomes the problem of this gov't, then I have a very HUGE problem with that. If the gov't decides (under Obama) to tell business how much they may pay people (beyond minimum wage), then we have socialism. Nothing more and nothing less.
So, how is it that I seem to have done okay for myself with no college education?
TexasBlue
Re: Those silly young people
Students don't choose to take out loans, they HAVE to! And they also don't choose to go to college, they HAVE to go to college in order to become even the least bit successful. A High School Degree isn't worth shit in the real world anymore.
How are stagnant wages not the gov'ts problem but unemployment is? There are other measures that increase wages besides mandating how much companies have to pay their employees.
And no offense, Tex, but you were just out of a job for a long time and your profession may not be the dream job of everybody. Besides, countries need people with college degrees, those people are after all what makes a country successful in global economic competition.
BubbleBliss
Re: Those silly young people
BubbleBliss wrote:Students don't choose to take out loans, they HAVE to! And they also don't choose to go to college, they HAVE to go to college in order to become even the least bit successful. A High School Degree isn't worth shit in the real world anymore.
This is true to a point. But they don't HAVE to like you imply. Nobody holds a gun to their head.
BubbleBliss wrote:How are stagnant wages not the gov'ts problem but unemployment is? There are other measures that increase wages besides mandating how much companies have to pay their employees.
Neither is the govt's job to correct. if the fucking gov't would get out of the way, the private sector would create jobs.
Placing wages at a certain rate would decimate the economy. Not to mention, it' would be thrown out by the SCOTUS if tried.
BubbleBliss wrote:And no offense, Tex, but you were just out of a job for a long time and your profession may not be the dream job of everybody. Besides, countries need people with college degrees, those people are after all what makes a country successful in global economic competition.
My profession may not be the dream job but it happens to be a job and a very good one at that. I haven't worked at a place that I actually enjoy for over 10 years now. This job is excellent, pays good and has great benefits.
Oh..... I did it without a college education.
TexasBlue
Re: Those silly young people
They have to go to College, if they want to be semi-successful in their lives.
We can discuss that in another thread, but that's off topic here.
You also grew up in a time where High School diplomas were worth something, unlike nowadays. You cannot get an office job without at least 2 years of College under your belt.
BubbleBliss
Re: Those silly young people
BubbleBliss wrote:
They have to go to College, if they want to be semi-successful in their lives.
We can discuss that in another thread, but that's off topic here.
You also grew up in a time where High School diplomas were worth something, unlike nowadays. You cannot get an office job without at least 2 years of College under your belt.
Actually, that is just not true. There are sorts of office jobs that don't require anything beyond a high school education - especially when the economy is doing well and competition for labor resources is tighter.
All the crap these brats are whining about would be greatly ameliorated if Obama and the Democrats would just take that hob-nailed jack boot off of the neck of the private sector.
dblboggie
Re: Those silly young people
Like what kind of office jobs?
Sure, if you can somehow convince a company that you're a good salesman, they'll give you a job, but fact of the matter is that there are plenty of unemployed people out there with some kind of degree that would also take that job.
BubbleBliss
Re: Those silly young people
BubbleBliss wrote:
Like what kind of office jobs
Sure, if you can somehow convince a company that you're a good salesman, they'll give you a job, but fact of the matter is that there are plenty of unemployed people out there with some kind of degree that would also take that job.
I'm talking about clerical and secretarial office jobs primarily, but also receptionists, call center jobs and the like.
You are quite right that when the economy is down, the competition for available jobs becomes more fierce and employers can afford to be pickier. In that case, a degree is a plus, but not a guarantee, in getting a job.
That's why we should be focusing on economic recovery, not the crap the Occutards and whining about.
dblboggie
Re: Those silly young people
Our economy has pushed education as a way to increase wages. The government kept minimum wages at $5.35/hour for almost two decades, while the cost of living went up.
Wages have stagnated or dropped since 1980 for the middle class.
I think part of the OWS is the protest of wages, of the cost of education which has steadily risen since Reagan got rid of the GI bill and the student loan program the government had.
Frustrations on not seeing a road to the middle class, despite doing what society said to do and that was to go to college if you want a good paying job, seems understandable to me.
But let's not forget the elderly are also protesting their lack of retirement.
Wages have stagnated or dropped since 1980 for the middle class.
I think part of the OWS is the protest of wages, of the cost of education which has steadily risen since Reagan got rid of the GI bill and the student loan program the government had.
Frustrations on not seeing a road to the middle class, despite doing what society said to do and that was to go to college if you want a good paying job, seems understandable to me.
But let's not forget the elderly are also protesting their lack of retirement.
Guest- Guest
Re: Those silly young people
dblboggie wrote:BubbleBliss wrote:
Like what kind of office jobs
Sure, if you can somehow convince a company that you're a good salesman, they'll give you a job, but fact of the matter is that there are plenty of unemployed people out there with some kind of degree that would also take that job.
I'm talking about clerical and secretarial office jobs primarily, but also receptionists, call center jobs and the like.
You are quite right that when the economy is down, the competition for available jobs becomes more fierce and employers can afford to be pickier. In that case, a degree is a plus, but not a guarantee, in getting a job.
That's why we should be focusing on economic recovery, not the crap the Occutards and whining about.
Well, since we have found out that the Federal Reserve used $7.77 TN of US taxpayer money to funnel loans and giveaways to US and mostly foreign banks, I think it's okay to protest the lack of criminal charges being brought to bear on them. After all, the burden of the taxes to pay this back is being put on the lower and middle class. That is not right. And these crimes, such as robosigning with is a felony, should be prosecuted.
Guest- Guest
Re: Those silly young people
dblboggie wrote:BubbleBliss wrote:
They have to go to College, if they want to be semi-successful in their lives.
We can discuss that in another thread, but that's off topic here.
You also grew up in a time where High School diplomas were worth something, unlike nowadays. You cannot get an office job without at least 2 years of College under your belt.
Actually, that is just not true. There are sorts of office jobs that don't require anything beyond a high school education - especially when the economy is doing well and competition for labor resources is tighter.
All the crap these brats are whining about would be greatly ameliorated if Obama and the Democrats would just take that hob-nailed jack boot off of the neck of the private sector.
Actually, Bush wrote more regulations on businesses than Obama has.
What regulations would you like to see lifted?
Guest- Guest
Re: Those silly young people
Obama has fewer but more costly regulations than Bush
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20126078-503544/obama-has-fewer-but-more-costly-regulations-than-bush/
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20126078-503544/obama-has-fewer-but-more-costly-regulations-than-bush/
TexasBlue
Re: Those silly young people
However, Mr. Obama has approved 129 rules that cost more than $100 million, compared with 90 such rules under Mr. Bush. That's in part due to inflation,
Health care costs...the COST of health care...is what weighs down the GDP. It is expected to go up if the health care industry is NOT regulated.
Guest- Guest
Re: Those silly young people
Cookie Parker wrote:However, Mr. Obama has approved 129 rules that cost more than $100 million, compared with 90 such rules under Mr. Bush. That's in part due to inflation,
Health care costs...the COST of health care...is what weighs down the GDP. It is expected to go up if the health care industry is NOT regulated.
This completely bassackwards! It is state and federal regulations that is CRIPPLING our health care and health insurance industries!
Competition, REAL competition, is IMPOSSIBLE under our current regulatory regime, and this is driving cost ever skyward! The federal government currently all but runs our healthcare system through the countless 10's of thousands of regulations!
An entire new industry was created just to deal with compliance to government regulations (which are constantly growing and changing) because it was overwhelming administrators at hospitals and medical practices.
And Obamacare is a MOUNTAIN of NEW regulations to add to a health care system already drowning in regulations!
We do NOT need more regulations we need much, MUCH fewer regulations. We need to allow true free market solutions to emerge! THAT will bring prices down.
dblboggie
Re: Those silly young people
dblboggie wrote:BubbleBliss wrote:
Like what kind of office jobs
Sure, if you can somehow convince a company that you're a good salesman, they'll give you a job, but fact of the matter is that there are plenty of unemployed people out there with some kind of degree that would also take that job.
I'm talking about clerical and secretarial office jobs primarily, but also receptionists, call center jobs and the like.
You are quite right that when the economy is down, the competition for available jobs becomes more fierce and employers can afford to be pickier. In that case, a degree is a plus, but not a guarantee, in getting a job.
That's why we should be focusing on economic recovery, not the crap the Occutards and whining about.
Maybe I always misunderstood the term "office job" but it was my understanding that an "office job" was a job such as accountant, somebody that works in sales or purchasing, etc. Like basic jobs at different departments of a company. I wouldn't count a secretary to that...
Nothing is a guarantee for a job nowadays... but I'd go as far as saying that not having a degree is a guarantee to not get the job.
BubbleBliss
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