Do the Rich Work Harder?

Do the Rich Work Harder?

Wall Street Journal
September 30, 2010

We often hear that the key to wealth is hard work.

But is it really?

British billionaire Richard Branson is quoted today as saying that the wealthy don’t work harder than everyone else–they are just fortunate.


“Yes, entrepreneurs may work hard, but I don’t think they actually work any harder than, say, doctors, nurses or other people in society, and yet tremendous wealth comes with it and therefore enormous responsibility comes with that wealth, responsibility to do good things, maybe create new businesses and maybe tackle some of the more seemingly intractable problems in the world…”He may be right. But studies on the comparative work habits of the wealthy tell a different story.

Research by professors Mark Aguiar and Erik Hurst combined the results of several large surveys (including studies where randomly chosen subjects kept detailed time diaries), and found that the working time for upper-income professionals has increased compared with 1965, while total annual working time for low-skill, low-income workers has decreased.

As David Brooks put it in a 2006 column: “For the first time in human history, the rich work longer hours than the proletariat.”

Research by Daniel Kahneman, the Nobel Prize-winning psychologist, shows that “being wealthy is often a powerful predictor that people spend less time doing pleasurable things and more time doing compulsory things and feeling stressed.”

His study found that people who earn less than $20,000 a year, for instance, spent more than a third of their time in passive leisure, like kicking back and watching TV. By contrast, those earning more than $100,000 a year (more affluent than wealthy), spent less than a fifth of their time in passive leisure.

My own experience tells me that the wealthy work insanely hard. I spent Monday and Tuesday with a billionaire who got up at 4:30 a.m., held meetings and business briefings until 9 p.m., ate dinner, then worked on emails until 2 a.m. He woke up at 5 a.m. the next morning, and started all over again. Seven days a week. This entrepreneur hadn’t taken a day off in 10 years (and I checked).

Of course, the inherited wealthy might be a different story (though plenty of them work hard, too). Still, at a time of lower pay and increasing demands on workers, it might seem like most Americans are working longer hours. But according to the OECD, total average annual work hours for those who are employed fell to 1,768 in 2009, from 1836 in 2000.

Of course, some may be working less not out of choice but by necessity. And maybe the upper-class are the only ones fortunate to be able to work long hours for hefty compensation. What is more, even the proud wealthy would admit that hard work accounts for only part of their success.

Still, based on the limited data we have, wealthy and upper-income folks really do seem to worker harder than everyone else.

Do you think the wealthy work harder than everyone else?

TexasBlue wrote:


“Yes, entrepreneurs may work hard, but I don’t think they actually work any harder than, say, doctors, nurses or other people in society, and yet tremendous wealth comes with it and therefore enormous responsibility comes with that wealth, responsibility to do good things, maybe create new businesses and maybe tackle some of the more seemingly intractable problems in the world…”He may be right.

I'd say doctors are among the hardest working people out there, since they have 12+ hour shifts and are basically on the clock 24/7.

Do rich people work harder? It depends, not every rich person does the same thing. Doctors are rich, but so are actors, popstars, models, etc. and doctors definitely work harder than actors and such. There are also those people who are so rich that they barely have to do anything, like wealthy restaurant or property owners.

I think the part that people don't use their heads with on this is that they have more mental stress to go with their jobs. We grunts work hard physically but they work as hard if not harder mentally. It came to me that way when i was in the military. I observed officers and how things seemed cushy for them and lousy for us lower enlisted people. Cushy, maybe, but they had some of the hardest jobs out there. Same goes for rich folks. But then, people like to think CEO's when they think rich.

My mom was a teacher for many years (in high school and college) and she certainly worked hard. And I only saw what she did after school (i.e. grading papers, calling parents, making the next days lesson plan, etc) - and that was the stuff that she wasn't getting paid for. I mean she literally spent hours every day doing that stuff. I can only imagine what her day at the school was like... And yet, she made less than 40k a year. Granted, it was only nine months per year but there is so much that happens outside of school that affects their home lives. IMO, teachers are some of the most underpaid people there are.

i_luv_miley wrote:My mom was a teacher for many years (in high school and college) and she certainly worked hard. And I only saw what she did after school (i.e. grading papers, calling parents, making the next days lesson plan, etc) - and that was the stuff that she wasn't getting paid for. I mean she literally spent hours every day doing that stuff. I can only imagine what her day at the school was like... And yet, she made less than 40k a year. Granted, it was only nine months per year but there is so much that happens outside of school that affects their home lives. IMO, teachers are some of the most underpaid people there are.

I agree 100%!! It's crazy how little teachers make in the US, and people wonder why the US school system is where it is.


And Tex, not everybody that makes a lot of money works harder mentally. Quality engineers, people in logistics, professors, researchers, etc. work just as hard as somebody in upper management when it comes to mental work. People that get paid more usually carry higher responsibilities. They appoint people who watch over/manage other people, and if those people don't do their job right, it'll all come back to the manager. It's not an easy job, but there are a lot of safety nets in place.

i_luv_miley wrote:My mom was a teacher for many years (in high school and college) and she certainly worked hard. And I only saw what she did after school (i.e. grading papers, calling parents, making the next days lesson plan, etc) - and that was the stuff that she wasn't getting paid for. I mean she literally spent hours every day doing that stuff. I can only imagine what her day at the school was like... And yet, she made less than 40k a year. Granted, it was only nine months per year but there is so much that happens outside of school that affects their home lives. IMO, teachers are some of the most underpaid people there are.

The median teacher salary in the USA $53,342. Of course, that's median. But that's pretty good, imo. In fact, i just looked at a chart that showed the low salary at $40,000 for just elementary kids... higher for high school teachers and special ed teachers.

Nine months for the year is right. If they worked 12 months for that pay, it would still be good.

BubbleBliss wrote:I agree 100%!! It's crazy how little teachers make in the US, and people wonder why the US school system is where it is.

And Tex, not everybody that makes a lot of money works harder mentally. Quality engineers, people in logistics, professors, researchers, etc. work just as hard as somebody in upper management when it comes to mental work. People that get paid more usually carry higher responsibilities. They appoint people who watch over/manage other people, and if those people don't do their job right, it'll all come back to the manager. It's not an easy job, but there are a lot of safety nets in place.

Thanks for the lesson in upper management lifestyles. After 47 years of living, i wasn't aware of all that.

TexasBlue wrote:

i_luv_miley wrote:My mom was a teacher for many years (in high school and college) and she certainly worked hard. And I only saw what she did after school (i.e. grading papers, calling parents, making the next days lesson plan, etc) - and that was the stuff that she wasn't getting paid for. I mean she literally spent hours every day doing that stuff. I can only imagine what her day at the school was like... And yet, she made less than 40k a year. Granted, it was only nine months per year but there is so much that happens outside of school that affects their home lives. IMO, teachers are some of the most underpaid people there are.

The median teacher salary in the USA $53,342. Of course, that's median. But that's pretty good, imo. In fact, i just looked at a chart that showed the low salary at $40,000 for just elementary kids... higher for high school teachers and special ed teachers.

Nine months for the year is right. If they worked 12 months for that pay, it would still be good.

But the pay is not good. Not for the amount of work that is involved. And given what the topic is about, that's the point. Given what they do and their importance, IMO teachers should make considerably more... Of course, I also think that they need to show (visible) results too. But given the work they do on a daily basis (not to mention education bureaucracy), it's no wonder so many teachers are stressed out. I couldn't do that job - and for 40 or 50k, I wouldn't want to.

$55,079 is the average salary for a teacher in Minneapolis, Mn.

Teachers in California make out pretty good if you ask me. A secondary school teacher’s salary is $61,970. A middle school teacher’s salary is $60,820. A special-education teacher’s salary is $60,306. An elementary teacher’s salary is $58,850.

Please don't say that isn't enough.

TexasBlue wrote:

i_luv_miley wrote:My mom was a teacher for many years (in high school and college) and she certainly worked hard. And I only saw what she did after school (i.e. grading papers, calling parents, making the next days lesson plan, etc) - and that was the stuff that she wasn't getting paid for. I mean she literally spent hours every day doing that stuff. I can only imagine what her day at the school was like... And yet, she made less than 40k a year. Granted, it was only nine months per year but there is so much that happens outside of school that affects their home lives. IMO, teachers are some of the most underpaid people there are.

The median teacher salary in the USA $53,342. Of course, that's median. But that's pretty good, imo. In fact, i just looked at a chart that showed the low salary at $40,000 for just elementary kids... higher for high school teachers and special ed teachers.

Nine months for the year is right. If they worked 12 months for that pay, it would still be good.

Not every teacher only works 9 months out of the year, some teachers teach summer programs or other programs like that. And considering that a teacher can graduate with about $80,000 worth of debt for a Bachelors Degree, that pay isn't that good afterall!

TexasBlue wrote:$55,079 is the average salary for a teacher in Minneapolis, Mn.

Teachers in California make out pretty good if you ask me. A secondary school teacher’s salary is $61,970. A middle school teacher’s salary is $60,820. A special-education teacher’s salary is $60,306. An elementary teacher’s salary is $58,850.

Please don't say that isn't enough.

The cost of living is also much higher in California compared to the rest of the US. Teachers in NYC make more also, but the cost of living is higher also.

So, tell me, what should they be making?

Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

TexasBlue wrote:So, tell me, what should they be making?

I'd say between $55,000 and $60,000 in an area where a teacher now makes between $40,000 & $48,000.

Also, lowering the amount of debt a student graduates with wouldn't be a bad idea.

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

You really think all teachers do is stand in front of people and talk? What about preparing a lesson plan, correction stuff, heading extracurricular activities, putting up with disrupting students, etc.?

BubbleBliss wrote:I'd say between $55,000 and $60,000 in an area where a teacher now makes between $40,000 & $48,000.

Also, lowering the amount of debt a student graduates with wouldn't be a bad idea.

Over here, you make money according to cost of living. Cost of living is cheaper in a small town. There's plenty of mismatching to look at regarding certain states in regards to other ones. Minnesota has a higher cost of living than Texas for instance. Then we get into the union discussion. But i'll stay away from that for the time being.

BubbleBliss wrote:

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

You really think all teachers do is stand in front of people and talk? What about preparing a lesson plan, correction stuff, heading extracurricular activities, putting up with disrupting students, etc.?

I have to agree with Bubbles on this one.

I know that, that's why I said "in an area where a teacher now makes between $40,000 & $48,000".

I think they make decent money. They certainly have good benefits.

Go look at the sticky thread on the NJ governor and his hammering of the teachers unions in that state.

As a budding public school teacher myself (currently a substitute), I think they are paid rather well. It certainly isn't jaw-dropping, but if you think about total time worked, I think it's pretty fair.

Let's look at the typical American teacher: 180 contact days + about 10 days of meetings; that's 190 days of work. School hours are not usually longer than 7 hours, with a 40 minute lunch and 45 minute planning time. Even if you add 2 hours staying before and after, that comes to about a 9-hour work day. Let's add another hour for good measure (grading papers, calling parents, etc.) and say teachers work 10 hour days. I do not imagine putting more than 50 hours per week in when I get a classroom, based off the observation and experiences I've already had, so I think that's a very generous estimate. So anyway, multiply that by 190 days, that's 1,900 hours a year.

To compare that with someone who works the typical 5-day-a-week, 40 hours- if that person worked all 261 weekdays, at 8 hours a pop, that comes to 2,088 hours a year. Account for three weeks of vacation and holiday time, and that's 1,968 hours a year, still more time worked than a teacher. And that's not even counting higher-paying jobs that definitely require more than 8-hour days or the fact that a teacher's 1,900 hours are very flexible- they're not bound by staying on the clock until a certain time, they can call substitutes in quite often, many days are shorter and less challenging (Christmas break parties, assemblies, etc.).

I think teachers get paid pretty fairly. Maybe I think that only because I've never personally amassed more than $15,000 a year or lived in a household that pulled in $35,000 a year (in a family of four). So maybe that median pay in the 40-50 thousands looks like a king's ransom to me. But I think when we analyze the time and responsibility of the job, it's pretty reasonable.

Heck, i done forgot about you and your teaching experience, budding as it may be. Your words put to rest many of the stereotypes of how bad things are for teachers.

But then, it always goes back to what people want to do for a living. If they want to teach, they certainly know that they won't get rich from it. People do it because they love doing it, money be damned.

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

So teachers don't spend six hours a day grading papers, calling parents and preparing the next days schedule - at home?

Tell that to my mom.

i_luv_miley wrote:

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

So teachers don't spend six hours a day grading papers, calling parents and preparing the next days schedule - at home?

Tell that to my mom.

Your mom over-worked herself.

TexasBlue wrote:

i_luv_miley wrote:

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:Teachers/instructors/professors don't work hard.
Standing in front of a bunch of people talking about a lesson is not tough work. In fact the toughest part about that job is getting kids to care about education...and that's not the instructor's job--that's the student's job.

So teachers don't spend six hours a day grading papers, calling parents and preparing the next days schedule - at home?

Tell that to my mom.

Your mom over-worked herself.

No doubt she did at times. But she would say that she was just doing her job.