Juan Williams fired over Muslim remarks

by BecMacFeegle Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:49 am

NPR fires Juan Williams over Muslim remark

US radio network National Public Radio has fired news analyst Juan Williams for saying on Fox News that he gets nervous if he sees Muslims on an plane.

The journalist appeared on The O'Reilly Factor to discuss host Bill O'Reilly's appearance on TV show The View last week, when he voiced controversial opinions on Muslims and 9/11.

NPR said in a statement that Williams's contract had been ended on Wednesday.

The journalist has written several books on the US civil rights movement.

"The cold truth is that in the world today jihad, aided and abetted by some Muslim nations, is the biggest threat on the planet," O'Reilly said during The O'Reilly Factor.

Credibility 'undermined'

Williams said he concurred with O'Reilly.

"I mean, look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous," Williams said.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations said before Mr Williams was sacked that such commentary from a journalist about other racial, ethnic or religious minority groups would not be tolerated.

In its statement, NPR said Mr Williams's comments "were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR".

Mr Williams has also served as a reporter and columnist for the Washington Post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11600084

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:37 pm

I'm not so sure this was a bright move on NPR's part. One, he wasn't on air with them. Two, he was conveying his personal feelings.

But then again, i have no clue how his contract with NPR was worded. He may or may not have a lawsuit brewing based on this.

Also, for those who may not know... Juan is black. He's the only black man employed by NPR. I know it shouldn't make a difference but i figured i'd throw that in before we get comments saying he's a bigoted right winger. He's neither a bigot nor a right winger.

His response here;
http://online.wsj.com/video/juan-williams-responds-to-his-firing-from-npr/C4D2753A-ADEF-47FE-9BBA-9852B475BA41.html

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:48 pm

TexasBlue wrote:I'm not so sure this was a bright move on NPR's part. One, he wasn't on air with them. Two, he was conveying his personal feelings.

But then again, i have no clue how his contract with NPR was worded. He may or may not have a lawsuit brewing based on this.

Also, for those who may not know... Juan is black. He's the only black man employed by NPR. I know it shouldn't make a difference but i figured i'd throw that in before we get comments saying he's a bigoted right winger. He's neither a bigot nor a right winger.

His response here;
http://online.wsj.com/video/juan-williams-responds-to-his-firing-from-npr/C4D2753A-ADEF-47FE-9BBA-9852B475BA41.html

is you a saying blacks can't be bigoted or a right winger?????

I would happeir if all "anti-Muslims in America" bigots lost their on-air jobs.

by The_Amber_Spyglass Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:59 pm

And the anti Jewish cable2

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:01 pm

cable2 wrote:is you a saying blacks can't be bigoted or a right winger?????

Not at all on the bigoted part. But if you did some digging on some of his writings, you'd see him to not be a bigot.

From Wikipedia, books written by Williams;
(1988). Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years, 1954-1965.
(2000). Thurgood Marshall: American Revolutionary.
(2003). This Far by Faith: Stories from the African American Religious Experience.
(2004). I'll Find a Way or Make One : A Tribute to Historically Black Colleges and Universities.
(2005). My Soul Looks Back in Wonder: Voices of the Civil Rights Experience.
(2006). Black Farmers in America.
(2007). The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America--and What We Can Do About It.

As for being a right winger... bleh. He's a registered Democrat.

cable2 wrote:I would happeir if all "anti-Muslims in America" bigots lost their on-air jobs.

Your anti-Israeli rants qualify as a form of bigotry. I know you disagree with that assessment. But your statement doesn't belong in the context of this thread.

by The_Amber_Spyglass Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:05 pm

Those articles are all about black history. It is possible to be an anti-muslim bigot because Islam is a religion, not a race.

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:14 pm

The_Amber_Spyglass wrote:Those articles are all about black history. It is possible to be an anti-muslim bigot because Islam is a religion, not a race.

They're actually books he's written.

But i find it hard for a man who's race has been pillared like it has over the last two centuries (and beyond) to be a bigot.

But it's is possible for him to be a bigot. But in the interview with O'Reilly, he claimed to not be a bigot. He just had "fears" that were present because of 9/11. Fears and bigotry are two different things. Not exclusively but different depending.

Personally, it's an individual thing that shouldn't be pasted with one group or another.

Look at me... i'm defending a Democrat. ROFL

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:25 pm

I Was Fired for Telling the Truth

Juan Williams
FoxNews.com
October 21, 2010

Yesterday NPR fired me for telling the truth. The truth is that I worry when I am getting on an airplane and see people dressed in garb that identifies them first and foremost as Muslims.

This is not a bigoted statement. It is a statement of my feelings, my fears after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 by radical Muslims. In a debate with Bill O’Reilly I revealed my fears to set up the case for not making rash judgments about people of any faith. I pointed out that the Atlanta Olympic bomber -- as well as Timothy McVeigh and the people who protest against gay rights at military funerals -- are Christians but we journalists don’t identify them by their religion.

And I made it clear that all Americans have to be careful not to let fears lead to the violation of anyone’s constitutional rights, be it to build a mosque, carry the Koran or drive a New York cab without the fear of having your throat slashed. Bill and I argued after I said he has to take care in the way he talks about the 9/11 attacks so as not to provoke bigotry.

This was an honest, sensitive debate hosted by O’Reilly. At the start of the debate Bill invited me, challenged me to tell him where he was wrong for stating the fact that “Muslims killed us there,” in the 9/11 attacks. He made that initial statement on the ABC program, "The View," which caused some of the co-hosts to walk off the set. They did not return until O’Reilly apologized for not being clear that he did not mean the country was attacked by all Muslims but by extremist radical Muslims.

I took Bill’s challenge and began by saying that political correctness can cause people to become so paralyzed that they don’t deal with reality. And the fact is that it was a group of Muslims who attacked the U.S. I added that radicalism has continued to pose a threat to the United States and much of the world. That threat was expressed in court last week by the unsuccessful Times Square bomber who bragged that he was just one of the first engaged in a “Muslim War” against the United States. -- There is no doubt that there's a real war and people are trying to kill us.

Mary Katharine Ham, a conservative writer, joined the debate to say that it is important to make the distinction between moderate and extreme Islam for conservatives who support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on the premise that the U.S. can build up moderate elements in those countries and push out the extremists. I later added that we don’t want anyone attacked on American streets because “they heard rhetoric from Bill O’Reilly and they act crazy.” Bill agreed and said the man who slashed the cabby was a “nut” and so was the Florida pastor who wanted to burn the Koran.

My point in recounting this debate is to show this was in the best American tradition of a fair, full-throated and honest discourse about the issues of the day. -- There was no bigotry, no crude provocation, no support for anti-Muslim sentiments of any kind.

Two days later, Ellen Weiss, my boss at NPR called to say I had crossed the line, essentially accusing me of bigotry. She took the admission of my visceral fear of people dressed in Muslim garb at the airport as evidence that I am a bigot. She said there are people who wear Muslim garb to work at NPR and they are offended by my comments. She never suggested that I had discriminated against anyone. Instead she continued to ask me what did I mean and I told her I said what I meant. Then she said she did not sense remorse from me. I said I made an honest statement. She informed me that I had violated NPR’s values for editorial commentary and she was terminating my contract as a news analyst.

I pointed out that I had not made my comments on NPR. She asked if I would have said the same thing on NPR. I said yes, because in keeping with my values I will tell people the truth about feelings and opinions.

I asked why she would fire me without speaking to me face to face and she said there was nothing I could say to change her mind, the decision had been confirmed above her, and there was no point to meeting in person. To say the least this is a chilling assault on free speech. The critical importance of honest journalism and a free flowing, respectful national conversation needs to be had in our country. But it is being buried as collateral damage in a war whose battles include political correctness and ideological orthodoxy.

I say an ideological battle because my comments on "The O’Reilly Factor" are being distorted by the self-righteous ideological, left-wing leadership at NPR. They are taking bits and pieces of what I said to go after me for daring to have a conversation with leading conservative thinkers. They loathe the fact that I appear on Fox News. They don’t notice that I am challenging Bill O’Reilly and trading ideas with Sean Hannity. In their hubris they think by talking with O’Reilly or Hannity I am lending them legitimacy. Believe me, Bill O’Reilly (and Sean, too) is a major force in American culture and politics whether or not I appear on his show.

Years ago NPR tried to stop me from going on "The Factor." When I refused they insisted that I not identify myself as an NPR journalist. I asked them if they thought people did not know where I appeared on the air as a daily talk show host, national correspondent and news analyst. They refused to budge.

This self-reverential attitude was on display several years ago when NPR asked me to help them get an interview with President George W. Bush. I have longstanding relationships with some of the key players in his White House due to my years as a political writer at The Washington Post. When I got the interview some in management expressed anger that in the course of the interview I said to the president that Americans pray for him but don’t understand some of his actions. They said it was wrong to say Americans pray for him.

Later on the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock crisis President Bush offered to do an NPR interview with me about race relations in America. NPR management refused to take the interview on the grounds that the White House offered it to me and not their other correspondents and hosts. One NPR executive implied I was in the administration’s pocket, which is a joke, and there was no other reason to offer me the interview. Gee, I guess NPR news executives never read my bestselling history of the civil rights movement “Eyes on the Prize – America’s Civil Rights Years,” or my highly acclaimed biography “Thurgood Marshall –American Revolutionary.” I guess they never noticed that "ENOUGH," my last book on the state of black leadership in America, found a place on the New York Times bestseller list.

This all led to NPR demanding that I either agree to let them control my appearances on Fox News and my writings or sign a new contract that removed me from their staff but allowed me to continue working as a news analyst with an office at NPR. The idea was that they would be insulated against anything I said or wrote outside of NPR because they could say that I was not a staff member. What happened is that they immediately began to cut my salary and diminish my on-air role. This week when I pointed out that they had forced me to sign a contract that gave them distance from my commentary outside of NPR I was cut off, ignored and fired.

And now they have used an honest statement of feeling as the basis for a charge of bigotry to create a basis for firing me. Well, now that I no longer work for NPR let me give you my opinion. This is an outrageous violation of journalistic standards and ethics by management that has no use for a diversity of opinion, ideas or a diversity of staff (I was the only black male on the air). This is evidence of one-party rule and one sided thinking at NPR that leads to enforced ideology, speech and writing. It leads to people, especially journalists, being sent to the gulag for raising the wrong questions and displaying independence of thought.

Daniel Schorr, my fellow NPR commentator who died earlier this year, used to talk about the initial shock of finding himself on President Nixon’s enemies list. I can only imagine Dan’s revulsion to realize that today NPR treats a journalist who has worked for them for ten years with less regard, less respect for the value of independence of thought and embrace of real debate across political lines, than Nixon ever displayed.

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:38 pm

Williams Firing Sparks Calls to Defund National Public Radio

FoxNews.com
October 21, 2010

"I think the U.S. Congress should investigate NPR and consider cutting off their money," said Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is also a Fox News contributor

Gingrich called the firing "an act of total censorship."

"I think the whole idea that if you honestly say how you feel about Islam -- what he said was very balanced, people should read what he actually said -- the idea that that's the excuse for National Public Radio to censor Juan Williams is an outrage and every listeners of NPR should be enraged that there's this kind of bias against an American," Gingrich said.

NPR President and CEO Vivian Schiller sent an internal memo Thursday seeking to clarify why Williams' contract was terminated, claiming that the remarks he made on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" weren't the problem, he was canned because he's become a pundit rather than an analyst.

"Juan's comments on Fox violated our standards as well as our values and offended many in doing so," Schiller wrote in the memo obtained by Fox News.

"This isn't the first time we have had serious concerns about some of Juan's public comments," she wrote. "Despite many conversations and warnings over the years, Juan continued to violate this principal (sic).

Speaking at the Atlanta Press Club Thursday, Schiller defended the firing, saying Williams should keep his feelings about Muslims between him and "his psychiatrist or his publicist."

Williams told Fox News that he was fired Wednesday by Ellen Weiss, NPR's vice president for news. He said Weiss told him he made a bigoted statement and crossed a line.

"I said, 'You mean I don't even get the chance to come in and we do this eyeball-to-eyeball, person-to-person, have a conversation? I've been there more than 10 years," Williams said. He said Weiss responded that "there's nothing you can that would change my mind."

But Williams has won considerable support from members in the press and lawmakers. The hosts of ABC's "The View," whose raucous interview with O'Reilly last week sparked a weeklong back-and-forth about making a distinction between Muslims and Islamic extremists, said NPR was wrong to let Williams go.

"I don't think he should have been fired, because, in fact as you pointed out Sherri, lots of people have this idea," said host Whoopi Goldberg.

Host Barbara Walters said Williams perhaps should have been chastised, not fired because he was on the show to give his perspective.

"I think they were very wrong," she said of NPR.

Republican Rep. Peter King went further, calling on Congress to defund NPR "because of its indefensible bias."

"NPR has disgraced itself by caving into CAIR and by firing Juan Williams for exercising his right of free speech," he said. "This is political correctness carried to its extreme form."

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a Fox News contributor, called on Congress to stop cutting checks to NPR and said he will no longer accept interview requests from NPR "as long as they are going to practice a form of censorship."

"NPR has discredited itself as a forum for free speech and a protection of the First Amendment rights of all and has solidified itself as the purveyor of politically correct pabulum and protector of views that lean left," he said.

NPR says government funding makes up less than 2 percent of it budget with the rest coming from station fees, sponsorships and grants.This week, the radio network received $1.8 million from billionaire investor George Soros to hire journalists to cover legislatures in all 50 states.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations had urged NPR to take swift action against Williams. The group said such commentary from a journalist about racial, ethnic or religious minority groups would not be tolerated.

"NPR should address the fact that one of its news analysts seems to believe that all airline passengers who are perceived to be Muslim can legitimately be viewed a security threats," said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad.

CAIR national spokesman Ibrahim Hooper told Fox News that the group is "pleased that the network addressed Muslim concerns."

"It was really up to them what to do in response," he said. "I think everyone has recognized now that perhaps it wasn't a good fit between the network and Mr. Williams."

Hooper said he did not think Williams, an African American who has written extensively on civil rights in the United States. But Hooper said, "Everybody's accountable for their words and their actions and when he seemed to legitimize singling out people who are perceived to be Muslim based on their attire on airlines, I think that crosses the line."

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:43 pm

Juan Williams wrote:Yesterday NPR fired me for telling the truth. The truth is that I worry when I am getting on an airplane and see people dressed in garb that identifies them first and foremost as Muslims.

It may not be bigoted, but he has nothing to worry about people dressing like Muslims on planes or trains, none of the suicide bombers (be they successful or unsuccessful) since 9/11 who had targeted European and American civilians were dressed in any fashion that would identify them as "Muslims". The reason would be pretty obvious from their point of view, no?

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:39 pm

merkwurdigliebe wrote:It may not be bigoted, but he has nothing to worry about people dressing like Muslims on planes or trains, none of the suicide bombers (be they successful or unsuccessful) since 9/11 who had targeted European and American civilians were dressed in any fashion that would identify them as "Muslims". The reason would be pretty obvious from their point of view, no?

Now you're splitting hairs.

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:43 pm

Just sayin' guv'nor!

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:20 pm

cable2 wrote:is you a saying blacks can't be bigoted or a right winger?????

TexasBlue wrote:Not at all on the bigoted part. But if you did some digging on some of his writings, you'd see him to not be a bigot.

From Wikipedia, books written by Williams;
(1988). Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years, 1954-1965.
(2000). Thurgood Marshall: American Revolutionary.
(2003). This Far by Faith: Stories from the African American Religious Experience.
(2004). I'll Find a Way or Make One : A Tribute to Historically Black Colleges and Universities.
(2005). My Soul Looks Back in Wonder: Voices of the Civil Rights Experience.
(2006). Black Farmers in America.
(2007). The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America--and What We Can Do About It.

As for being a right winger... bleh. He's a registered Democrat.

"I mean, look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous," Williams said.

... you may not say Williams is a bigot.. but his own empolyer thinks he is.

Williams told Fox News that he was fired Wednesday by Ellen Weiss, NPR's vice president for news. He said Weiss told him he made a bigoted statement and crossed a line.

cable2 wrote:I would happeir if all "anti-Muslims in America" bigots lost their on-air jobs.

TexasBlue wrote:Your anti-Israeli rants qualify as a form of bigotry. I know you disagree with that assessment. But your statement doesn't belong in the context of this thread.

my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

"anti-Muslims in America" bigots.. is you saying there are no such persons in America or on-air ????????????????

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:25 pm

merkwurdigliebe wrote:It may not be bigoted, but he has nothing to worry about people dressing like Muslims on planes or trains, none of the suicide bombers (be they successful or unsuccessful) since 9/11 who had targeted European and American civilians were dressed in any fashion that would identify them as "Muslims". The reason would be pretty obvious from their point of view, no?

TexasBlue wrote:Now you're splitting hairs.

some Muslims attacked America.. therefore all Muslims are to blame Sad

by dblboggie Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:54 pm

cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

Yeah, right. And where are those rants against Hamas and their blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions and International Law and just common sense laws of humanity? People who strap their children with bombs and send them off to blow up innocent civilians? Or the people just lobbing missiles into Israel at random to hit who they may? Or those who hide their weapons and ammunition in mosques, schools and peoples homes, or who launch attacks from those locations (in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions), so they cannot be fired back on without creating innocent casualties?

I don't see you ranting against Muslim terrorism in Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or anywhere else in the world. But you sure have an awful lot to say about Israel, who has been under attack by the Muslims that have surrounded them from day one, and all they have done is attempt to defend their tiny nation as best they can.

I will tell you that I, for one, am really growing weary of your anti-Jewish, anti-Israel diatribes.

On another note, I noticed that you completely failed to answer my response to you in the O'Reilly/View thread. I asked you one specific question there which you have yet to answer - and that was to name this alleged "sub-Wahhabi sect" that the 9/11 perpetrators belonged to.

See here: https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/politics-f1/bill-o-reilly-gets-whoopi-goldberg-and-joy-behar-to-walk-off-the-view-t807-45.htm

Pay particular attention to my response to your suggestion that I "read a book or two." I wonder why you avoided that bit there?

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:45 pm

cable2 wrote:Williams is a bigot.. but his own empolyer thinks he is.

Yeah? His employer held him to one standard but another for others.

cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

"anti-Muslims in America" bigots.. is you saying there are no such persons in America or on-air ????????????????

Never said there were no bigots. Bigots and racist exist everywhere in every country on this planet. Is it right? No, but it's an element of human nature that you nor I can change. But you, as usual, paint all of America as bigots against Muslims. I can go dig up that quote you made the day before if you like.

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:50 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
cable2 wrote:Williams is a bigot.. but his own empolyer thinks he is.

Yeah? His employer held him to one standard but another for others.

Here's the NPR double standard. It seems that NPR allows its reporters to wish that Republican Senators or their innocent grand kids die a slow, horrible death from AIDS and are now fired. Action taken by NPR? None.

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:53 pm

CAIR's director and Fox's Megyn Kelly today. Note how Ibrahim acknowledges that Juan was "not a good fit" at NPR because he "didn't reflect the view point of the station." Kelly asks what view point NPR spreads on their tax-payer-funded radio and internet sites, Hooper replies, "NPR, obviously, has a more liberal view point."

by **TexasBlue** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 pm

In case my British friends here are not aware, NPR (where Williams worked) is funded by U.S. tax payer dollars. They made a big mistake here based on that alone. Watch for a congressional investigation on this in the coming months. I personally hope they ax the funding. They seem to be doing fine with the 1.8 million that they recently received from left wing billionaire George Soros.... to hire 100 reporters. Twisted Evil

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:22 pm

cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

dblboggie wrote:Yeah, right. And where are those rants against Hamas and their blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions and International Law and just common sense laws of humanity? People who strap their children with bombs and send them off to blow up innocent civilians? Or the people just lobbing missiles into Israel at random to hit who they may? Or those who hide their weapons and ammunition in mosques, schools and peoples homes, or who launch attacks from those locations (in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions), so they cannot be fired back on without creating innocent casualties?

I don't see you ranting against Muslim terrorism in Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or anywhere else in the world. But you sure have an awful lot to say about Israel, who has been under attack by the Muslims that have surrounded them from day one, and all they have done is attempt to defend their tiny nation as best they can.

if you would care to read the whole of my post.. you will see my reply was to Tex's claim

Your anti-Israeli rants qualify as a form of bigotry.

I don't think me bringing in Hamas would really answer it for Tex.. and again please re-read my posts here and those on the other forum.. you will soon see I have call for ALL criminals be brought to justice and that no group, individual or nation is above the law.

dblboggie wrote:I will tell you that I, for one, am really growing weary of your anti-Jewish, anti-Israel diatribes.

that's OK, I can live with your weariness.. what I can't live with is your missuse of me.. I have never been anti-Jewish in any word, thought or deed.. so an apology would be nice to hear

dblboggie wrote:On another note, I noticed that you completely failed to answer my response to you in the O'Reilly/View thread. I asked you one specific question there which you have yet to answer - and that was to name this alleged "sub-Wahhabi sect" that the 9/11 perpetrators belonged to.

See here: https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/politics-f1/bill-o-reilly-gets-whoopi-goldberg-and-joy-behar-to-walk-off-the-view-t807-45.htm

Pay particular attention to my response to your suggestion that I "read a book or two." I wonder why you avoided that bit there?

O' I will pay attention.. until your comment I did not know that debate was still on going.

by Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:40 pm

cable2 wrote:Williams is a bigot.. but his own empolyer thinks he is.

TexasBlue wrote:Yeah? His employer held him to one standard but another for others.

I would complain if I where you.

cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

"anti-Muslims in America" bigots.. is you saying there are no such persons in America or on-air ????????????????

TexasBlue wrote:Never said there were no bigots. Bigots and racist exist everywhere in every country on this planet. Is it right? No, but it's an element of human nature that you nor I can change. But you, as usual, paint all of America as bigots against Muslims. I can go dig up that quote you made the day before if you like.

I don't think you'll find me painting all Americans as bigots against Muslims... just as I don't think all Muslims attacked America.

by dblboggie Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:29 pm

cable2 wrote:
cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

dblboggie wrote:Yeah, right. And where are those rants against Hamas and their blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions and International Law and just common sense laws of humanity? People who strap their children with bombs and send them off to blow up innocent civilians? Or the people just lobbing missiles into Israel at random to hit who they may? Or those who hide their weapons and ammunition in mosques, schools and peoples homes, or who launch attacks from those locations (in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions), so they cannot be fired back on without creating innocent casualties?

I don't see you ranting against Muslim terrorism in Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or anywhere else in the world. But you sure have an awful lot to say about Israel, who has been under attack by the Muslims that have surrounded them from day one, and all they have done is attempt to defend their tiny nation as best they can.

if you would care to read the whole of my post.. you will see my reply was to Tex's claim
Your anti-Israeli rants qualify as a form of bigotry.
I don't think me bringing in Hamas would really answer it for Tex.. and again please re-read my posts here and those on the other forum.. you will soon see I have call for ALL criminals be brought to justice and that no group, individual or nation is above the law.

No, I will not go on a wild goose chase. Respond to me here. I can't think of a single time that you have not justified Hamas and their ilk with the most repulsive sort of moral relativism. What Israel has done pales in comparison to the crimes of Hamas, and I would submit that Israel's actions have been well justified, legal, and done in self defense.

You say you don't condone and lawbreaking when someone like me challenges you on organizations like Hamas, but one never sees you actually condemning them in any thread, no one sees you posting article after article condemning them. Rather, what we do see is you posting article after article taking the Muslim side of conflict. The so-called "Freedom Flotilla's" which were nothing more than a blatant attempt to gin up anti-Israeli sentiment by purposely violating a legal blockade and ignoring legal orders to heave to and permit boarding. You post, and post and post even more anti-Israeli propaganda by far left sites and say not a word yourself. And when someone calls you on these posts you say "well gee... I don't support lawbreaking by anyone" but I'm not buying that one bit.

So, I say again, no... I will not go on a wild goose chase looking for a needle in a haystack. Denounce Hama's blatantly illegal and immoral criminal actions right here. Then try to tell me how it is no worse than what Israel is doing.

cable2 wrote:
dblboggie wrote:I will tell you that I, for one, am really growing weary of your anti-Jewish, anti-Israel diatribes.
that's OK, I can live with your weariness.. what I can't live with is your missuse of me.. I have never been anti-Jewish in any word, thought or deed.. so an apology would be nice to hear

I do not feel that one is deserved whatsoever. Perhaps it is you who should be apologizing to the people of Israel. You seem to think they have elected a government of pure evil. What does that say about those Jews who did this?

cable2 wrote:
dblboggie wrote:On another note, I noticed that you completely failed to answer my response to you in the O'Reilly/View thread. I asked you one specific question there which you have yet to answer - and that was to name this alleged "sub-Wahhabi sect" that the 9/11 perpetrators belonged to.

See here: https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/politics-f1/bill-o-reilly-gets-whoopi-goldberg-and-joy-behar-to-walk-off-the-view-t807-45.htm

Pay particular attention to my response to your suggestion that I "read a book or two." I wonder why you avoided that bit there?
O' I will pay attention.. until your comment I did not know that debate was still on going.

Well, it is still going, and I anxiously await your full reply.

by The_Amber_Spyglass Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:59 am

Guys, I know there is still some bad feeling carried over from next door but let's try to not let old conflicts get in the way here?

Let's only talk about issues raised in this forum.

by Guest Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:34 am

cable2 wrote:my rants [as you call them] against Israeli has ever been over their illegal behavior and I have never ranted against the Jewish people in any manner, shape or form.. and if Israel where to start to act with the rule of law they would not hear a rant from me.

dblboggie wrote:Yeah, right. And where are those rants against Hamas and their blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions and International Law and just common sense laws of humanity? People who strap their children with bombs and send them off to blow up innocent civilians? Or the people just lobbing missiles into Israel at random to hit who they may? Or those who hide their weapons and ammunition in mosques, schools and peoples homes, or who launch attacks from those locations (in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions), so they cannot be fired back on without creating innocent casualties?

I don't see you ranting against Muslim terrorism in Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or anywhere else in the world. But you sure have an awful lot to say about Israel, who has been under attack by the Muslims that have surrounded them from day one, and all they have done is attempt to defend their tiny nation as best they can.

cable2 wrote:if you would care to read the whole of my post.. you will see my reply was to Tex's claim
Your anti-Israeli rants qualify as a form of bigotry.
I don't think me bringing in Hamas would really answer it for Tex.. and again please re-read my posts here and those on the other forum.. you will soon see I have call for ALL criminals be brought to justice and that no group, individual or nation is above the law.

dblboggie wrote:No, I will not go on a wild goose chase. Respond to me here. I can't think of a single time that you have not justified Hamas and their ilk with the most repulsive sort of moral relativism. What Israel has done pales in comparison to the crimes of Hamas, and I would submit that Israel's actions have been well justified, legal, and done in self defense.

although I recognize Hamas as the democratically ruling party of Palestine [along with the vast majority of the general council of the UN and most of this world's governments] I do not nor have I ever excused or limited my call for those crimes; be brought to justice; committed by Hamas that come out side their legal right to engage the invaders and illegal occupiers of their country. [in the same way the Iraqis had a legal right to engage with the illegal invaders and ongoing occupiers of their country.. in the same way as the Afghans have a legal right to engage the illegal invaders and ongoing occupiers of the country.. in the same way the Tibetans have a legal right to engage the illegal invaders and ongoing occupiers of their country] you may submit "that Israel's actions have been well justified, legal, and done in self defense." but as those actions take place to keep the illegal occupation going.. it makes those actions themselves illegal.. no other nation on earth has had so many UN demands that they [Israel] return to the rule of law.. and if was no for America's continued use of their veto with in the security council over the last 60 years.. Israel would have faced the whole weight of the UN decades ago.. so let's not hear any more of your rants on the claim that I do not call for justice and bringing criminals to court.. I am in total support of the last UN report into the war crimes committed in Israel's last full scale invasion of Gaza where it gives detailed evidence of wide spread war crimes by Israel and the some criminal actions by Hamas.. the UN report call on those who committed war crimes be brought to justice.. by those crimes committed by Israel or Hamas. .

dblboggie wrote:You say you don't condone and lawbreaking when someone like me challenges you on organizations like Hamas, but one never sees you actually condemning them in any thread, no one sees you posting article after article condemning them. Rather, what we do see is you posting article after article taking the Muslim side of conflict. The so-called "Freedom Flotilla's" which were nothing more than a blatant attempt to gin up anti-Israeli sentiment by purposely violating a legal blockade and ignoring legal orders to heave to and permit boarding. You post, and post and post even more anti-Israeli propaganda by far left sites and say not a word yourself. And when someone calls you on these posts you say "well gee... I don't support lawbreaking by anyone" but I'm not buying that one bit.

I have all way said criminals should be brought to justice and that no Group, Individual or Nation is above the law.. I have never said; as your comments imply; that all criminals should brought to justice except those Groups, Individuals or Nations that dblboggie and I have heated debates over.. NO I have said ALL criminals should be brought to justice and that NO Group, Individual or Nation is above the law.. and for over 60 years Palestine as be waiting for the rule of law to return. .. nor am I trying to sell any thing but would expect you to except what I say [even if you do not agree with what you read]

dblboggie wrote:So, I say again, no... I will not go on a wild goose chase looking for a needle in a haystack. Denounce Hama's blatantly illegal and immoral criminal actions right here. Then try to tell me how it is no worse than what Israel is doing.

no goose chase; wild or no; as you have been part of many of the debates on the other forum [and a couple here] over the need to bring criminals to justice.. the first to spring to mind is our the debate over America's world wide net work of torture camps.. where you would claim America did not torture as you went through worse in your military training and any way America's tortures where nicer then the torture of America's enemies.. where as I, I never wavered in my call for ALL tortures be brought to justice..

Hamas's crimes are as criminal as Israel's crimes.. there are no good crimes and it's up to a court to decide the punishment for those criminals.. so it's not OK just to call some crimes as good and justifiable crimes if you are unwilling to demand those criminals be brought before an international court of law to be judged.

cable2 wrote:
dblboggie wrote:I will tell you that I, for one, am really growing weary of your anti-Jewish, anti-Israel diatribes.
that's OK, I can live with your weariness.. what I can't live with is your missuse of me.. I have never been anti-Jewish in any word, thought or deed.. so an apology would be nice to hear

dblboggie wrote:I do not feel that one is deserved whatsoever. Perhaps it is you who should be apologizing to the people of Israel. You seem to think they have elected a government of pure evil. What does that say about those Jews who did this?

I should apologize cos of your misuse of me by you calling me anti-Jewish ???????????? me thinks you will find Israel state is not a theocracy but is said to be an open Democratic nation where even non-Jews can and have been elected to their parliament.. if you where to tread a bit.. you will find Jews all over the world also call on Israel to return to the rule of law, are you also calling all those Jews who criticize Israel as anti-Jewish????????????.

cable2 wrote:
dblboggie wrote:On another note, I noticed that you completely failed to answer my response to you in the O'Reilly/View thread. I asked you one specific question there which you have yet to answer - and that was to name this alleged "sub-Wahhabi sect" that the 9/11 perpetrators belonged to.

See here: https://superiorpolitics.forumotion.com/politics-f1/bill-o-reilly-gets-whoopi-goldberg-and-joy-behar-to-walk-off-the-view-t807-45.htm

Pay particular attention to my response to your suggestion that I "read a book or two." I wonder why you avoided that bit there?
O' I will pay attention.. until your comment I did not know that debate was still on going.

Well, it is still going, and I anxiously await your full reply.[/quote]

i did post one reply in that thread last night and as I said in that post I would be posting more later.

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