Palestinian statehood push stirs new fears

Palestinian statehood push stirs new fears

Ethan Bronner
New York Times
September 10, 2011

RAMALLAH, WEST BANK - Less than two weeks before Palestinians plan to defy the Obama administration by requesting membership and statehood recognition at the United Nations, there is a growing fear that the Arab-Israeli conflict is entering an explosive new phase.

A Palestinian decision to shift its statehood quest toward international legal and political pressure on Israel, combined with Israeli fear and truculence at a time of regional upheaval, has many predicting disaster.

"Israel is already facing hostility from Egypt, Turkey and Gaza," a senior Western diplomat said. "It will react to a Palestinian statehood bid with punitive measures in the West Bank. Congress will probably cut off aid to the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority could collapse. We're watching a potential train wreck."

Palestinians say that their lives have long been a train wreck -- an Israeli-induced one of settlement and occupation -- and that it is time for a radical shift in approach. They say their U.N. effort, along with accession to international legal forums, will be followed by renewed negotiations with clearer guidelines. The Israelis say the move will kill the chance of future talks. In fact, no one knows where it could lead.

The details of the U.N. membership bid are still being worked out -- on Monday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is to present his plan to the Arab League -- and some of what is happening is brinkmanship. But on the ground there are ominous hints. The Israeli military is holding dress rehearsals for Palestinian riots. Radical settlers vandalized mosques and an Israeli military base last week.

French diplomats are trying to help the Palestinians shape a U.N. resolution that describes statehood on the 1967 lines, along with agreed land swaps with Israel, but slows down bilateral recognition between a Palestinian state and other nations.

Israel is horrified. To abandon the Oslo peace process, its leaders say, is to destroy any hope of negotiations, because that will rip up the legal basis for talks. If a U.N. resolution defines Palestinian state as within the 1967 lines, that means 500,000 Israelis will be defined as occupiers in another country.

"If the Palestinians go to the United Nations, it will begin a long funeral for the peace process and negotiations," said Yuli Edelstein, Israel's minister for public diplomacy.

U.S. diplomats have warned Abbas of unforeseen consequences from his bid, saying it will not end the occupation and is likely to make it worse. If the Palestinian Authority falters, Hamas will fill the vacuum, they said.

A diplomat from another country said: "Americans want to preserve the existing paradigm. But many are saying to them: 'You are living in the last century. Nothing has happened in that paradigm. It's time to move on.'"

I say give them a shot... why should the US and Israel be the only ones deciding the fate of Palestine?

BubbleBliss wrote:
I say give them a shot... why should the US and Israel be the only ones deciding the fate of Palestine?

Complicated mess.

They do not deserve the dignity of international statehood in my opinion. They've had many, many opportunities to make their peace with Israel on extremely generous terms, and they stuck their collective thumb in the eyes of those who would have welcomed peace and coexistence with them. Their elected leadership still clings to a charter that calls for the destruction Israel.

Until they renounce this barbaric leadership they should be denied any claim to statehood.

I think Israel should build more settlements; that will help the peace process.

bigger_guns_nearby wrote:I think Israel should build more settlements; that will help the peace process.

On a serious note BGN, why should anyone consider granting statehood to a "Palestinian" state when when it's government is committed to the destruction of Israel?

BGN is right.... but then so are you.

I like being in the middle.

dblboggie wrote:

bigger_guns_nearby wrote:I think Israel should build more settlements; that will help the peace process.

On a serious note BGN, why should anyone consider granting statehood to a "Palestinian" state when when it's government is committed to the destruction of Israel?

I'm not coming here to excuse Hamas. We can definitely find some common ground on that issue. Although the mindset that says, because the elected government is run by 'terrorists' we won't even talk to them - not implying that's your opinion - is not going to get anywhere.

But the settlements issue isn't frivolous, at all. Unless you're of the opinion that a prospective Palestinian state should have no claim whatsoever to the 1967 boundaries. Otherwise, you have to see how this looks from a Palestinian perspective: the Israeli refusal to accept their statehood is purely a delaying tactic while they settle the land in contention, which will obviously bolster any eventual claim to that land, be it mediated by the UN or the US or whoever. That's a classic colonial tactic, of course; look at how China shipped Han Chinese into Tibet in order to undermine Tibetan claims to the land. The Israelis talk about wanting a proper bi-lateral negotiation, while simultaneously changing the terms of that negotiation before it has even begun. That seriously undermines their credibility.

bigger_guns_nearby wrote:Although the mindset that says, because the elected government is run by 'terrorists' we won't even talk to them - not implying that's your opinion - is not going to get anywhere.

Being devils advocate, we negotiated with the USSR but they weren't blowing people up either.

It's in my opinion that there was no state of Palestine. Just a region.

Precisely Tex. There is no such thing as "Palestine" and no such thing as a "Palestinian" and there never has been. "Palestine" is a name the Romans gave to Eretz Yisrael (Israel) to infuriate the Jews and attempt to wipe out the identity of Israel. There is no "Palestinian" language, no Palestinian culture, no land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. These so-called "Palestinians" are Arabs and nothing more.

The so-called 1967 borders were simply parts of Israel that were taken from Israel by (then) Trans-Jordan (the West Bank) and Egypt (the Gaza Strip) in a bloody war launched by 6 Arab nations in an attempt to wipe Israel out back in 1948. Those lands were taken back by Israel after Jordan and Egypt launched yet another attempt to wipe out Israel in 1967. At NO point between 1948 and 1967 did either Arab nation mention anything about a Palestinian people or volunteer the surrender of land taken from Israel in '48 war in attempt to establish a Palestinian state for those Arabs living in the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

There is so much of the history of this region that I fear you may be missing, especially how Britain screwed Israel out of 80% or more of the lands granted them by the Balfour Declaration of 1917.

In my humble opinion, knowing what I know about the history of the region, the so-called "Palestinian's" should consider themselves damn grateful Israel is considering giving them ANY land within their borders. That's a hell of a lot more than any Arab state has offered them.

dblboggie wrote:That's a hell of a lot more than any Arab state has offered them.

Yeah, and you also know many Arab states don't like the "Palestinian" refugees.