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Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers

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Post by TexasBlue Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:49 pm

Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers

Scott Bauer
Associated Press
March 9, 2011


MADISON, Wis. - Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate voted Wednesday night to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers after discovering a way to bypass the chamber's missing Democrats.

All 14 Senate Democrats fled to Illinois nearly three weeks ago, preventing the chamber from having enough members present to consider Gov. Scott Walker's so-called "budget repair bill" — a proposal introduced to plug a $137 million budget shortfall.

The Senate requires a quorum to take up any measures that spend money. But Republicans on Wednesday split from the legislation the proposal to curtail union rights, which spends no money, and a special conference committee of state lawmakers approved the bill a short time later.

The lone Democrat present on the conference committee, Rep. Peter Barca, shouted that the surprise meeting was a violation of the state's open meetings law but Republicans voted over his objections. The Senate convened within minutes and passed the measure without discussion or debate.

Before the sudden votes, Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch said if Republicans "chose to ram this bill through in this fashion, it will be to their political peril. They're changing the rules. They will inflame a very frustrated public."

Walker said after the votes that Senate Democrats had plenty of opportunities to come home.

"I applaud the Legislature's action today to stand up to the status quo and take a step in the right direction to balance the budget and reform government," the governor said in a statement.

Walker's proposal has touched off a national debate over union rights and prompted tens of thousands of demonstrators to converge on Wisconsin's capital for weeks of protests. Spectators in the gallery Wednesday night screamed "You are cowards" as the Senate voted.

"In 30 minutes, 18 state Senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin. Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten," said Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller. "Tonight, 18 Senate Republicans conspired to take government away from the people. Tomorrow we will join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government."

The drama unfolded less than four hours after Walker met with GOP senators in a closed-door meeting. He emerged from the meeting saying senators were "firm" in their support of the bill.

Democrats had been calling all day Wednesday for Walker and Republicans to compromise.

Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said earlier that Republicans had been discussing concessions Walker's office had offered, including allowing public workers to bargain over their salaries without a wage limit. Several GOP senators facing recall efforts had publicly called for compromise.

Union leaders weren't happy with the concessions, and Democrats had not signed off on them.

While talks had been going on sporadically behind the scenes, Republicans in the Senate also had publicly tried to ratchet the pressure on Democrats to return. They had agreed earlier Wednesday to start fining Democrats $100 for each day legislative session day they miss.

Walker's stalled bill was introduced to help plug a $137 million budget shortfall projected by the end of June. He has said that without the collective bargaining bill, he may have to lay off 1,500 state workers and make other cuts to balance the budget.

On Wednesday, the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau offered a way to salvage $165 million in debt by refinancing savings. It had said the bill could pass as late as early April if other accounting moves were done by Walker's administration to extend the debt refinancing deadline by a month.
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Post by TexasBlue Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:50 pm





Big Grin Big Grin
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Post by TheNextPrez2012 Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:08 pm

This sounds like a case of these union people putting themselves above the budget crisis.
They seem to want what is right for them no matter how much it will not help the budget.
In the old days we used to call that being selfish.
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:41 pm

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:This sounds like a case of these union people putting themselves above the budget crisis.
They seem to want what is right for them no matter how much it will not help the budget.
In the old days we used to call that being selfish.

That's how I perceived it. Not only that, but they cut their noses off to spite their faces by leaving the state. Also, there could be hundreds of layoffs instead. I'm not sure about that since this news hit. But to allow the layoffs by stonewalling what is an obvious budget issue was stupid.
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Post by i_luv_miley Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:24 pm

Or maybe non-Republican Wisconsin workers are interested in keeping their jobs from being shipped to India as has happened in so much of the rest of America??? Kick Can

This has nothing to do with money and everyone knows it.
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:39 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:Or maybe non-Republican Wisconsin workers are interested in keeping their jobs from being shipped to India as has happened in so much of the rest of America??? Kick Can

This has nothing to do with money and everyone knows it.

It has everything to do with money. It's a budget problem. If you can't see that (and look for it on the internet), then I can't help you.
TexasBlue
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Post by i_luv_miley Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:10 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
i_luv_miley wrote:Or maybe non-Republican Wisconsin workers are interested in keeping their jobs from being shipped to India as has happened in so much of the rest of America??? Kick Can

This has nothing to do with money and everyone knows it.

It has everything to do with money. It's a budget problem. If you can't see that (and look for it on the internet), then I can't help you.
If it really was a budget problem then the state(s) would just raise taxes to increase revenue. But instead, they immediately look for things to cut - things that they (the governors) disagree with. It's about ideology and nothing more.
i_luv_miley
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:15 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:
TexasBlue wrote:
i_luv_miley wrote:Or maybe non-Republican Wisconsin workers are interested in keeping their jobs from being shipped to India as has happened in so much of the rest of America??? Kick Can

This has nothing to do with money and everyone knows it.

It has everything to do with money. It's a budget problem. If you can't see that (and look for it on the internet), then I can't help you.
If it really was a budget problem then the state(s) would just raise taxes to increase revenue. But instead, they immediately look for things to cut - things that they (the governors) disagree with. It's about ideology and nothing more.

More taxes. Sleep

It never ends, does it? The country and the states are climbing out of this recession slowly but surely. Let's raise taxes and send it back into the shitter. Cuts are the way to go right now. Gov't on the state and federal level are wayyyyy too fat.
TexasBlue
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Post by TheNextPrez2012 Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:27 pm

New PA. leader Tom Corbett (a GOP guy)
"I bring you a budget that has two underlying messages," Corbett told a joint session of the House and Senate. "One -- we have to spend less, because we have less to spend. Two -- we must tax no more, because the people have no more to give."
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Post by dblboggie Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:32 pm

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:New PA. leader Tom Corbett (a GOP guy)
"I bring you a budget that has two underlying messages," Corbett told a joint session of the House and Senate. "One -- we have to spend less, because we have less to spend. Two -- we must tax no more, because the people have no more to give."

Thumbs Up He's right! As is the Wisconsin governor, my governor here in Ohio and governors elsewhere who are only now facing the music...
dblboggie
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:38 pm

Families have been having to cit back in the last two years. Why not gov't? There's a ton of fat that can be cut. The two party's are gutless on what to cut.
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Post by dblboggie Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:50 pm

TexasBlue wrote:Families have been having to cit back in the last two years. Why not gov't? There's a ton of fat that can be cut. The two party's are gutless on what to cut.

The thing that really tics me off is that most government budgets (state and federal) have automatic COLA increases built in... and politicians scream like stuck-pigs when someone suggests just forgoing the COLA increase as though these were actually "cuts" in their budgets! It's insanity!

With the amount of redundancy we know to be present in every agency of these governments there is no WAY they could not make an across the board 5% cut in real terms (not including the COLA) - but even this is shouted down as "irresponsible." Imagine that - a tiny 5% cut from a budget insanely out of control, and politicians are calling it irresponsible!

We've gone from "down the rabbit hole" to "down the rat hole."
dblboggie
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Post by TheNextPrez2012 Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:58 pm

However as Corbett cuts the education part of the budget he has no problem giving himself and others in the state govt. a raise.
Also, the 2nd in charge for the state gets million dollar renovations to the house he lives in...
TheNextPrez2012
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:02 pm

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:However as Corbett cuts the education part of the budget he has no problem giving himself and others in the state govt. a raise.
Also, the 2nd in charge for the state gets million dollar renovations to the house he lives in...

Post stats on that and then I'll agree with you.
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Post by i_luv_miley Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:06 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
i_luv_miley wrote:
TexasBlue wrote:
i_luv_miley wrote:Or maybe non-Republican Wisconsin workers are interested in keeping their jobs from being shipped to India as has happened in so much of the rest of America??? Kick Can

This has nothing to do with money and everyone knows it.

It has everything to do with money. It's a budget problem. If you can't see that (and look for it on the internet), then I can't help you.
If it really was a budget problem then the state(s) would just raise taxes to increase revenue. But instead, they immediately look for things to cut - things that they (the governors) disagree with. It's about ideology and nothing more.

More taxes. Sleep

It never ends, does it? The country and the states are climbing out of this recession slowly but surely. Let's raise taxes and send it back into the shitter. Cuts are the way to go right now. Gov't on the state and federal level are wayyyyy too fat.
More taxes was just an example of what could be done... Beat Dead Horse How about doing away with CEO "bonuses"? That money could be better spent elsewhere. Right? But that was never even a consideration. Instead the governor went straight to unions - i.e. the liberal stronghold, especially in Wisconsin.

Sorry, I win again. This is a clear case of a Republican once again disguising his own personal agenda as something "moral" and "just" in order to get elected and then doing whatever he wants. In short, the governor lied.

At least the Wisconsin workers still have one thing they can do - strike! Regardless of what happens next though, that governor is finished as governor. Razz
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Post by TexasBlue Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:41 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:More taxes was just an example of what could be done... Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 105593 How about doing away with CEO "bonuses"? That money could be better spent elsewhere. Right? But that was never even a consideration. Instead the governor went straight to unions - i.e. the liberal stronghold, especially in Wisconsin.

CEO bonuses have diddly to do with this. This is the state budget, not a tax budget. It seems that you don't know the difference. The state now has a Republican governor and Republican majorities in their assembly because people were getting fed up with being taxed at ever higher rates which was driving businesses and jobs out of the state and all to support bloated public servants who have not taken a pay cut, who have not taken a cut in of hours. This is something the average American has had to do in the last 2 years. Also, they pay NOTHING pension plans. Who does? The state... which means the PEOPLE pay that bill via their state taxes.

i_luv_miley wrote:Sorry, I win again. This is a clear case of a Republican once again disguising his own personal agenda as something "moral" and "just" in order to get elected and then doing whatever he wants. In short, the governor lied.

You haven't won squat. You have yet to answer questions I asked above your post. Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 649842 Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 649842

Also, YOU provide some document PROOF that Walker "lied." You keep making accusations but never provide any type of evidence to back it up. So.... back it up!

i_luv_miley wrote:At least the Wisconsin workers still have one thing they can do - strike!

Strikes by public employees are illegal in Wisconsin.

i_luv_miley wrote:Regardless of what happens next though, that governor is finished as governor. Razz

Gonna be a long 4 years then. His term doesn't expire till 2014. Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 404792
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Post by dblboggie Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:56 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:More taxes was just an example of what could be done... Beat Dead Horse How about doing away with CEO "bonuses"? That money could be better spent elsewhere. Right? But that was never even a consideration.

Really? And by what authority does the State of Wisconsin seize the bonuses of private-sector CEO’s? And by what authority does he have the right to dictate to private-sector CEO’s what they should or should not be paid?

And what do you suppose those CEO’s that remain in Wisconsin would do if the Governor even attempted such an illegal move? I can tell you they'd leave that state, with their companies, in a heartbeat! And how is that good for Wisconsin? How does that solve their budget problems?

Honestly, where do you come up with these ideas?

i_luv_miley wrote:Instead the governor went straight to unions - i.e. the liberal stronghold, especially in Wisconsin.

The governor went straight to the source of the state’s greatest source of indebtedness and liabilities – the wages, salaries and benefits of public employees!

Anyone who has studied even the most basic of economics classes will know that for any entity whose business is providing services (which state governments are by a wide majority) the greatest outlays are in wages, salaries and benefits to their employees – as much as 70% of the state’s budget . Cuts elsewhere, while still valid, don’t begin to touch the real problem... out of control pension and health benefits plans – won for these so-called “public servants” at the expense of private-sector citizens through taxation!

So while the citizens are having to endure never-ending increases in taxes and fees to feed this monster, these “public servants” sit fat and happy with yearly COLA increases on their wages and salaries, and paying nothing for insanely generous health and pension plans that allow them to retire early and live well for the rest of their lives – while private-sector citizens cancel plans for retirement to replenish destroyed 401k plans, and deal with higher taxes, lower wages or hours or both – just so they can stay employed if they’re lucky – and struggling to make ends meet.

And all the while these “public servants” are wailing and knashing their teeth at the “horror” of the “injustice” being perpetrated on them by a governor who so cruely suggested that perhaps these “public servants” might be forced to bear just a tiny portion of the responsibility for the bloated and out of control budget deficits.

i_luv_miley wrote:Sorry, I win again.

You can’t be serious, right? An illegal and unconstitutional seizure of CEO bonuses is your “win”???

i_luv_miley wrote:This is a clear case of a Republican once again disguising his own personal agenda as something "moral" and "just" in order to get elected and then doing whatever he wants. In short, the governor lied.


Please prove the governor lied... and what he lied about.

i_luv_miley wrote:At least the Wisconsin workers still have one thing they can do - strike! Regardless of what happens next though, that governor is finished as governor. Razz

So basically what you are saying is screw the citizens of the state who pay these “public servant’s” wages? Right?

You’re saying, if these “public servants” don’t get their way, then they can just strike and shut the entire state government down. Which in essence hands these “public servants” all legislative, executive and judicial powers to be held in abeyance until they get their way!

Why on earth even have a governor, a legislature, or a judiciary if these “public servants” can shut it down until their demands are met?

The voters spoke! They elected a Republican governor and a Republican congress. So rather than abide by the rule of law and do their jobs, Senate Democrats (“public servants” btw), and government employees walk off the job like petulant children and refuse to do their jobs until the rest of the government bends to their will by sheer thuggish force alone – screw the voters and taxpayers – the public-sector unions will have their way whether they arrive there legally or not!

A very sad state of affairs indeed.
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Post by i_luv_miley Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:23 pm

TexasBlue wrote:
i_luv_miley wrote:More taxes was just an example of what could be done... Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 105593 How about doing away with CEO "bonuses"? That money could be better spent elsewhere. Right? But that was never even a consideration. Instead the governor went straight to unions - i.e. the liberal stronghold, especially in Wisconsin.

CEO bonuses have diddly to do with this. This is the state budget, not a tax budget. It seems that you don't know the difference. The state now has a Republican governor and Republican majorities in their assembly because people were getting fed up with being taxed at ever higher rates which was driving businesses and jobs out of the state and all to support bloated public servants who have not taken a pay cut, who have not taken a cut in of hours. This is something the average American has had to do in the last 2 years. Also, they pay NOTHING pension plans. Who does? The state... which means the PEOPLE pay that bill via their state taxes.

i_luv_miley wrote:Sorry, I win again. This is a clear case of a Republican once again disguising his own personal agenda as something "moral" and "just" in order to get elected and then doing whatever he wants. In short, the governor lied.

You haven't won squat. You have yet to answer questions I asked above your post. Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 649842 Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 649842

Also, YOU provide some document PROOF that Walker "lied." You keep making accusations but never provide any type of evidence to back it up. So.... back it up!

i_luv_miley wrote:At least the Wisconsin workers still have one thing they can do - strike!

Strikes by public employees are illegal in Wisconsin.

i_luv_miley wrote:Regardless of what happens next though, that governor is finished as governor. Razz

Gonna be a long 4 years then. His term doesn't expire till 2014. Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers 404792
As usual, we're now back to bickering about semantics. The fact of the matter is we have a fundamental disagreement. At least in the workforce, us liberals want to have protection from being screwed. --Comment removed-- It's precisely why unions exist.

Again, it was never about money. The governor went in with an agenda and he made sure he followed through with it. Period. As for facts, just look at them... Again, Walker did it. Peter King is doing it and Boehner is doing it. And let's not forget Bush Jr. doing it after 9/11... They saw an opening and they took advantage of it. They got elected by saying one thing, and ended up doing something else. It's about power, pure and simple. It's politics and it's wrong!
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Post by TexasBlue Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:40 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:As usual, we're now back to bickering about semantics. The fact of the matter is we have a fundamental disagreement. At least in the workforce, us liberals want to have protection from being screwed. --Comment removed-- It's precisely why unions exist.

We're not bickering about semantics. I've asked you TWICE to back up your claims. If your claims are what you believe, then fine. But I'm asking you to back up your claims. Just because you say something is so, doesn't make it so. I can back up what I say with facts. I can back up those facts from the horses mouth... the state gov't of Wisconsin. I don't get my facts from op-eds (much to everyones dismay). I actually look at gov't stats. In this case, all one has to do is go to various state web sites for the state of Wisconsin. It's all there.

What you object to is just what's happening with the STATE unions. You never objected to Dems ramming thru their shit in 2009. Doesn't feel too good, does it?

Saying that conservatives want to have the ability to screw you over is nothing but an opinion, a low blow and nothing but hyperbole.

i_luv_miley wrote:Again, it was never about money. The governor went in with an agenda and he made sure he followed through with it. Period. As for facts, just look at them... Again, Walker did it. Peter King is doing it and Boehner is doing it. And let's not forget Bush Jr. doing it after 9/11... They saw an opening and they took advantage of it. They got elected by saying one thing, and ended up doing something else. It's about power, pure and simple. It's politics and it's wrong!

Man alive. Again, the people of Wisconsin apparently didn't think the Democrats were doing a good job holding the governorship. The people of Wisconsin apparently didn't think the Democrats were doing a good job controlling the state assembly. It's not like Walker never said he wasn't going to do what he's doing.

You keep on and on about that it isn't about money. BACK IT UP! Show me! Because when you do, I'm going to drop a ball into this thread showing everyone how much the state is in the Red there.

Since you brought up that it isn't about money then here's some facts for ya. Four of the top six Wisconsin contributors to the 2010 elections were labor unions, with the state's teachers union giving $119,342 and the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees spending $83,888. The teachers union gave 96 percent of its money to Democrats, while Wisconsin AFSCME gave the Dems every penny.

Gov't unions spent $573,868 on Wisconsin's 2010 elections (almost all of it going to Dems) while govt employees spent another half million, with most going to the Dems.

Wisconsin has raised taxes in recent years and is still facing a multibillion-dollar deficit.
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Post by kronos Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:23 pm

i_luv_miley wrote:The fact of the matter is we have a fundamental disagreement. At least in the workforce, us liberals want to have protection from being screwed. --Comment removed--

ILM: Under House Rule 2c, you are required to back this accusation.

EDIT: Comment removed after 24 hours with no response.

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Post by TheNextPrez2012 Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:31 pm

tens of thousands of undaunted pro-labor protesters descended on Madison again Saturday and vowed to focus on future elections now that contentious cuts to public worker union rights have become law.

This never ends does it?
they voted out one side because that party was not doing great and the other side comes in and whamo! we're already looking forward to the next election to boot them out.

This is what's wrong with the world.
Every group has to have it their way and if they don't get what they want, they cry about it and vow revenge. Why can't these people see that things have to be done to right the ship and not everybody will like it. Just accept it and move on.
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Post by TexasBlue Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:37 pm

TheNextPrez2012 wrote:This never ends does it?
they voted out one side because that party was not doing great and the other side comes in and whamo! we're already looking forward to the next election to boot them out.

This is what's wrong with the world.
Every group has to have it their way and if they don't get what they want, they cry about it and vow revenge. Why can't these people see that things have to be done to right the ship and not everybody will like it. Just accept it and move on.

Yeah, that's right. Basically, in a nutshell, that's what has to happen. But this country is more polarized than it's ever been in my lifetime. Of course, this is just my opinion..... for years and years, many things on the left have gone unchallenged. Now it's being challenged. This is what we get. The left and the right do not agree on shit anymore. It's going to get worse before it's going to get better. That's all I can say. Also, until this country gets a guy like Chris Christie in the WH, the right is going to not get any farther than they are a this point in fixing things that need fixing.

But what do I know? I'm just a political hack.... a partisan one at that.
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Post by dblboggie Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:51 pm

Honestly people... do you not see the massive injustice of having people who are paid by private sector taxpayers (public sector union members via their bosses, public sector union leaders), bargaining with other people who are paid by public sector taxpayers (the politicians who are supposed to be representing the best interests of their private sector constituents - but whose campaigns are fully supported by public sector unions) - leaving no real representation of those private sector taxpayers who are footing the bill for all of this nonsense?

Please, someone just attempt to justify this absolute insanity for me. Explain to me why FDR, George Meany and others on the left felt that private bargaining rights were inconsistent with the fundamental principles of constitutional republicanism.
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Post by TexasBlue Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:30 pm

1) Public sector unions pay off politicians.
2)Politicians become gov't officials.
3) Gov't officials sign union contracts.
4) Union contracts pay public workers enormous salaries and benefit packages.
5) Union workers pay dues from the contract proceeds.... which are funneled to politicians.... who then become gov't officials and around we go.

Meanwhile, taxpayers should just sit there and shut up the fuck while unions run the show?
TexasBlue
TexasBlue

Wis. Republicans vote to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers Admin210


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Post by dblboggie Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:15 pm

TexasBlue wrote:1) Public sector unions pay off politicians.
2)Politicians become gov't officials.
3) Gov't officials sign union contracts.
4) Union contracts pay public workers enormous salaries and benefit packages.
5) Union workers pay dues from the contract proceeds.... which are funneled to politicians.... who then become gov't officials and around we go.

Meanwhile, taxpayers should just sit there and shut up the fuck while unions run the show?

Please allow me to expand upon this scenario Tex.

1) Public sector employees are paid by private sector employees - any money they have is thanks to private sector taxpayers
2) Public sector employees are represented by public sector unions
3) Public sector employees (with money as pay from private sector taxpayers) pay union dues
4) Public sector union bosses are paid by public sector union members through their dues (which they got from private sector taxpayers)
5) Politicians are elected to office by private and public sector employees, but are paid exclusively by private sector taxpayers
6) Union bosses contribute millions of dollars to Democrat politicians campaigns (all money gotten from private sector taxpayers)
7) Union bosses then "negotiate" for lucrative wages and benefits for their public sector union members
8) Those union bosses "negotiate" with the politicians whose campaigns they have so generously funded (with private sector taxpayer dollars)
9) Private sector taxpayers have no seat at this bargaining table... though it is dominated entirely by people whose wages and salaries they pay.
10) Private sector taxpayers are then put on the hook through higher taxes for the unsustainable wage increases, medical and pension benefits won by public sector employees "bargaining" with other public sector employees.

Finally, private sector taxpayers have had enough and vote into office Republicans who are not supported by public sector unions and give them a mandate to reign in exploding state deficits due to unfunded liabilities which are mostly comprised of unrealistic health and pension benefits for public sector employees.

So what do these "public servants" do? Why they walk off the job (illegally) and storm the streets of the state capitol, wreak havoc on the capitol building itself, while their Democrat representatives in the state senate abandon their jobs and flee to a neighboring state to avoid doing their sworn duty.

Meanwhile, the private sector taxpayers are given a great big middle finger and are told to fuck themselves.

Someone, please, tell me how this is fair... much less sane.

And if you disagree with the scenario I've painted above, please be so kind as to point out how I am wrong about this.
dblboggie
dblboggie

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