Question to DEMOCRATS: How is it that Republicans...

......get away with blaming Obama for the anemic recovery, when it was they who successfully blocked Obama's efforts to pass an economic package large enough to do more than merely avert an imminent depression?

Kcoll wrote:......get away with blaming Obama for the anemic recovery, when it was they who successfully blocked Obama's efforts to pass an economic package large enough to do more than merely avert an imminent depression?

You're going to have to do better than this. Point out what economic package they "successfully" blocked and we'll debate.

TexasBlue wrote:

Kcoll wrote:......get away with blaming Obama for the anemic recovery, when it was they who successfully blocked Obama's efforts to pass an economic package large enough to do more than merely avert an imminent depression?

You're going to have to do better than this. Point out what economic package they "successfully" blocked and we'll debate.

Well, how about it?

I refer to the stimulus package passed in Feb. 2009, which, both independent economists and the Congressional Budget Office agree averted an imminent depression.

At the time of its passage it was already being criticized as too small to do much more than that. But Obama had to reduce the size of the stimulus to get three Republican senators to abandon the filibuster.

As a result, we have a sputtering and stalling recovery.

And Democrats, amazingly, instead of pointing out this Republican obstructionism, are letting Republicans have a field day in the media blaming Obama.

I'm asking Democrats on the board why they think this is so.

There are no DEMOCRATS on this board, but I'll probably do until one comes along.

1. America is terrified of the guillotine blade that is the deficit. Telling people "we should've spent more, way more," when we are yay close to defaulting on the debt, would not go over well.

2. When you control the executive branch and have a supermajority in the legislative, it is hard to credibly pass the buck.

Well, that all may be true.
But it couldn't hurt for someone to remind the public that the Republican prescription, taken from Hoover, would have pushed the country into a depression. Better than simply letting "Obama made it worse" go unanswered.

NO Democrats on this board? Well then, how would you describe the board's distribution of political affiliation?

Just because one doesn't share the views of Republicans doesn't mean that one is automatically a Democrat. And I'd say since there are many international members on this board, many may share the basic views of Democrats but don't want to affiliate themselves with a political group that's not from their country.

Kcoll wrote:Well, that all may be true.
But it couldn't hurt for someone to remind the public that the Republican prescription, taken from Hoover, would have pushed the country into a depression. Better than simply letting "Obama made it worse" go unanswered.

NO Democrats on this board? Well then, how would you describe the board's distribution of political affiliation?

This just is not true. Even KEYNESIAN economic theory calls for cuts to taxes and regulations in a recession. Recessions are a natural part of the business cycle and, absent massive government interference in free markets, generally short lived. Even FDR's Treasury Secretary - the key architect of FDR’s New Deal no less - said "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work." The depression in the 30's lasted years longer than our European counterparts. FDR and his policies were a disaster!

Obama is making the very same mistakes FDR made and this economy will not turn around until he takes his Adminstration's boot off the neck of the private sector - period!

NOTE: I have split off my subsequent discussion with Dbl about FDR's policies, and merged it into the Roosevelt Redux thread--kronos.

Kcoll wrote:NO Democrats on this board? Well then, how would you describe the board's distribution of political affiliation?

Not all of us live in North America for a start.

Kcoll wrote:I refer to the stimulus package passed in Feb. 2009, which, both independent economists and the Congressional Budget Office agree averted an imminent depression.

Apparently, the CBO disagress with you to a point.

President Obama’s economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.

CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/

Of course, the CBO only works with the data that congress gives them.

Kcoll wrote:At the time of its passage it was already being criticized as too small to do much more than that. But Obama had to reduce the size of the stimulus to get three Republican senators to abandon the filibuster.

How could that happen? The three Senators weren't part of an impending filibuster.

Also, why in the hell would any GOP'er vote for a bill that the Senate wouldn't allow amendments for? If I presented amendments to that bill and was told to shove it up my ass, you best believe I'd vote against it.

Kcoll wrote:As a result, we have a sputtering and stalling recovery.

Do you not ever blame your president? He owns this economy. The GOP had nothing to do with what was put forth by Obama and the Dems in 2009-2010.

You see, when the party I supported started fuqqing things up in 2005-6 & 7, I abandoned them.

Kcoll wrote:And Democrats, amazingly, instead of pointing out this Republican obstructionism, are letting Republicans have a field day in the media blaming Obama.

Kinda hard to be obstructionists when the Senate breakdown in 2009-2010 was 58-40 and the House was 257-178. Dems had a super-majority in the Senate after Al Franken was seated and Arlen Specter's switch to the Dems.

Btw, can anyone explain how these were going to stimulate the economy?

$650 million for digital TV coupons
$600 million for new cars for the federal government
$6 billion for colleges/universities
$25 million for new ATV trails
$400 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
$400 million for global warming research
$30 billion has been set aside for infrastructure spending
$200 million for Dep. of Defense to acquire alternative energy vehicles.
$1.5 billion for a CO2 Reductions
$4.2 billion for community organizing
$3.5 billion for higher education facilities
$400 million for HIV and chlamydia testing
$150 million for The Smithsonian
$81 billion for Medicaid
$36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
$20 billion for food stamps
$83 billion for the earned income credit for non-taxpayers
$54 billion to federal programs Economic Development Administration, the Small Business Administration, the 10 federal job training programs
$66 billion for education
$650 million coupons to subsidize digital television conversion
$572 million for Coast Guard improvements
$1 billion to subsidize Amtrak
$2 billion to help subsidize child care
$2.25 billion for national parks
$75 million for programs to help people quit smoking
$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department
$200 million for the National Mall, including $21 million for sod
$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.
$32 billion for a "smart" electricity grid to minimize waste
$13 billion for public housing, the homeless, renovate foreclosed homes
$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment
$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the costs of college tuition


Subsidizing doesn't stimulate shit.

A lot of what was spent didn't stimulate the economy. Much was regular funding or giveaways for pet projects.

To stimulate the economy, you have to provide the incentive for SMALL BUSINESS! Ain't happen yet.